From bbohman@state.mt.us Wed May 1 15:10:02 2002 From: bbohman@state.mt.us (Bohman, Bob) Date: Wed May 1 14:10:02 2002 Subject: the database for CRM Message-ID: <5DE91B2AB349C240A07DDBE7927C129204264C6D@doaisd02005> To add a "discouraging word" (despite being a Westerner) to this discussion: (1) Database systems come, and go. No system is forever. The only thing certain about "what's next" is that there WILL someday be a "next". (2) In 15 years with state government, database "policy" has shifted from DB3 to DB4, to Paradox, to Reflex (with spreadsheet side trips into PFS, Lotus, and Quattro Pro), and now to Oracle (with a little backup from Excel and Access). (I have data files which...with some careful planning and checking...have been transferred from system-to-system at least four times.) (3) Our move into Oracle was highly touted, has taken over 2 years to start, and is still not completed. (4) Before leaping to a mega-system like Oracle, I would take a strong look at data-transferability, compatibility with ESRI...and then pick the simplest and (perhaps) cheapest route compatible with the job. Bob Bohman Montana DEQ -----Original Message----- From: Kathy McGrath [mailto:kathy.mcgrath@insightbb.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:18 PM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: the database for CRM Share with me this vision: The "pie in the sky" would be an ORACLE database. This is an expensive system, and many companies would not be able to afford this. Perhaps there is a state, an entity, a curation facility, or federal agency out there that could support this system and pay for lincensing and training for those who use that system--(perhaps access online?). This would result in the following: more companies/agencies/departments would be using the same system, more resources would be analyzed the same way, and research would be coordinated and far easier. Although everyone wants to direct their own analyses and address their own research questions, perhaps some of the basic information could be agreed upon--such as information collected by the NADB. Or perhaps this would involve a translation program before information would be sent back to the SHPO/curation facility. This would involve many many painful meetings hammering out the basics . . . . Kathryn J. McGrath From jessewalker44@hotmail.com Thu May 2 09:12:01 2002 From: jessewalker44@hotmail.com (jesse walker) Date: Thu May 2 08:12:01 2002 Subject: Question about the earliest dates for Canadian provincial CRM laws Message-ID: I am writing a paper on Canada CRM laws for a heritage management class. I was trying to find out the earliest dates for provincial laws in each of the providences in Canada. Here is what I have come up with. Are there earlier dates for the laws? Thanks, Jesse Walker wjesse@temple.edu Graduate Student Temple University OUTLINE OF PROVINCIAL LEGISLATION Bristish Colombia: 1925 Not sure of the name of the law New Brunswick - Historic Sites Protection Act - 1954 Municipal Heritage Preservation Act - 1978 Nova Scotia - Heritage Property Act - 1989 Prince Edward Island - Heritage Places Protection Act - 1992 Newfoundland and Labrador - Historic Resources Act - 1990 Yukon - Historic Sites and Monuments - 1986??? Historic Resources - 1991 Northwest Territories - Historic Resources Act - 1988 Nunavut - Historic Resources Act - 1988 Ontario - Ontario Heritage Act 1993 Heritage Conservation Act 1979 Saskatchewan - The Heritage Property Act - 1980 Manitoba - The Heritage Manitoba Act - 1987 The Heritage Resources Act - 1985 Quebec - Cultural Property Act - 1972 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From JTrnka@hrgreen.com Thu May 2 11:23:01 2002 From: JTrnka@hrgreen.com (Trnka, Joe) Date: Thu May 2 10:23:01 2002 Subject: archaeological resources in construction projects at RAF Lakenhea th Message-ID: <40A2FDA7269FD411A6B300805F196BE3C9556E@crntexch.hrgreen.com> For those of you who are interested in such things, there's a great non-scholarly story on how the US Air Force is dealing with archaeological resources in construction projects at Royal Air Force (RAF) Lakenheath in the UK. The link is: http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0502/bones.html FYI, as a tenant at RAF Lakenheath, the Air Force is obligated to comply with British (not US) laws & policy when dealing with archaeological resources. Thus, there are differences in how archaeological resources are dealt with at RAF Lakenheath when compared to how it is done here in the US. Joe ======================== Joseph Trnka Project Manager/Environmental Scientist Howard R. Green Company 8710 Earhart Lane SW, PO Box 9009 Cedar Rapids, IA 52409-9009 Phone: (319) 841-4380, (800) 728-7805 Fax: (319) 841-4012 Email: jtrnka@hrgreen.com Web Site: http://www.hrgreen.com Stapp's Ironical Paradox: "The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." Col John Paul Stapp, Edwards AFB From tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com Thu May 2 14:08:01 2002 From: tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com (Tom Wheaton) Date: Thu May 2 13:08:01 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #103 - 4 msgs In-Reply-To: <200205021701.g42H1Ed23198@zibal.hubris.net> References: <200205021701.g42H1Ed23198@zibal.hubris.net> Message-ID: > >Message: 2 >From: "jesse walker" >To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net >Subject: Question about the earliest dates for Canadian provincial CRM laws >Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:11:42 -0400 > >I am writing a paper on Canada CRM laws for a heritage management class. I >was trying to find out the earliest dates for provincial laws in each of the >providences in Canada. Here is what I have come up with. Are there earlier >dates for the laws? > >Thanks, >Jesse Walker >wjesse@temple.edu >Graduate Student >Temple University Please go to the ACRA site, Cultural Resource links, Archaeology, and check the websites for the Canadian and Ottawa cultural resource consultants pages. I am sure they would have more information on Canadian law and practice than we do. -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html From avarchaeology@yahoo.com Thu May 2 14:25:01 2002 From: avarchaeology@yahoo.com (Mark Campbell) Date: Thu May 2 13:25:01 2002 Subject: archaeological resources in construction projects at RAF Lakenhea th In-Reply-To: <40A2FDA7269FD411A6B300805F196BE3C9556E@crntexch.hrgreen.com> Message-ID: <20020502182406.28614.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com> Good article. Now if we could just get the Air Force interested Stateside. Here they still think this stuff is optional. --- "Trnka, Joe" wrote: > For those of you who are interested in such things, > there's a great > non-scholarly story on how the US Air Force is > dealing with archaeological > resources in construction projects at Royal Air > Force (RAF) Lakenheath in > the UK. > > The link is: > http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0502/bones.html > > FYI, as a tenant at RAF Lakenheath, the Air Force is > obligated to comply > with British (not US) laws & policy when dealing > with archaeological > resources. Thus, there are differences in how > archaeological resources are > dealt with at RAF Lakenheath when compared to how it > is done here in the US. > > Joe > > ======================== > Joseph Trnka > Project Manager/Environmental Scientist > Howard R. Green Company > 8710 Earhart Lane SW, PO Box 9009 > Cedar Rapids, IA 52409-9009 > Phone: (319) 841-4380, (800) 728-7805 > Fax: (319) 841-4012 > Email: jtrnka@hrgreen.com > Web Site: http://www.hrgreen.com > > Stapp's Ironical Paradox: > "The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any > human accomplishment an > incredible miracle." > Col John Paul Stapp, Edwards AFB > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From tng@hardlinesdesign.com Thu May 2 15:15:01 2002 From: tng@hardlinesdesign.com (Tom Ng - Archaeologist) Date: Thu May 2 14:15:01 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #103 - 4 msgs In-Reply-To: <200205021701.g42H1Ed23198@zibal.hubris.net> Message-ID: Hi Jesse, It has been awhile since I worked in Alberta. I think the CRM act in Alberta is called the Historical Resource Act or the Historical Resource Impact Assessment/Act (HRIA) and it was instituted in the 1970s. Contact the Archaeological Survey of Alberta or the Provincial Museum of Alberta and they would give you a better idea, unless you already have. Also, in British Columbia, I believe there is a website of BC CRM and the jurisdiction of archaeology falls under BC Culture and Tourism. I hope this helps, sorry I can't help much more. Tom Columbus, Ohio -----Original Message----- From: acra-l-admin@lists.nonprofit.net [mailto:acra-l-admin@lists.nonprofit.net]On Behalf Of acra-l-request@lists.nonprofit.net Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:01 PM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #103 - 4 msgs Send acra-l mailing list submissions to acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to acra-l-request@lists.nonprofit.net You can reach the person managing the list at acra-l-admin@lists.nonprofit.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of acra-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: the database for CRM (Bohman, Bob) 2. Question about the earliest dates for Canadian provincial CRM laws (jesse walker) 3. archaeological resources in construction projects at RAF Lakenhea th (Trnka, Joe) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Bohman, Bob" To: "'Kathy McGrath'" , acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: RE: the database for CRM Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:09:01 -0600 To add a "discouraging word" (despite being a Westerner) to this discussion: (1) Database systems come, and go. No system is forever. The only thing certain about "what's next" is that there WILL someday be a "next". (2) In 15 years with state government, database "policy" has shifted from DB3 to DB4, to Paradox, to Reflex (with spreadsheet side trips into PFS, Lotus, and Quattro Pro), and now to Oracle (with a little backup from Excel and Access). (I have data files which...with some careful planning and checking...have been transferred from system-to-system at least four times.) (3) Our move into Oracle was highly touted, has taken over 2 years to start, and is still not completed. (4) Before leaping to a mega-system like Oracle, I would take a strong look at data-transferability, compatibility with ESRI...and then pick the simplest and (perhaps) cheapest route compatible with the job. Bob Bohman Montana DEQ -----Original Message----- From: Kathy McGrath [mailto:kathy.mcgrath@insightbb.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:18 PM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: the database for CRM Share with me this vision: The "pie in the sky" would be an ORACLE database. This is an expensive system, and many companies would not be able to afford this. Perhaps there is a state, an entity, a curation facility, or federal agency out there that could support this system and pay for lincensing and training for those who use that system--(perhaps access online?). This would result in the following: more companies/agencies/departments would be using the same system, more resources would be analyzed the same way, and research would be coordinated and far easier. Although everyone wants to direct their own analyses and address their own research questions, perhaps some of the basic information could be agreed upon--such as information collected by the NADB. Or perhaps this would involve a translation program before information would be sent back to the SHPO/curation facility. This would involve many many painful meetings hammering out the basics . . . . Kathryn J. McGrath --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "jesse walker" To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Question about the earliest dates for Canadian provincial CRM laws Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:11:42 -0400 I am writing a paper on Canada CRM laws for a heritage management class. I was trying to find out the earliest dates for provincial laws in each of the providences in Canada. Here is what I have come up with. Are there earlier dates for the laws? Thanks, Jesse Walker wjesse@temple.edu Graduate Student Temple University OUTLINE OF PROVINCIAL LEGISLATION Bristish Colombia: 1925 Not sure of the name of the law New Brunswick - Historic Sites Protection Act - 1954 Municipal Heritage Preservation Act - 1978 Nova Scotia - Heritage Property Act - 1989 Prince Edward Island - Heritage Places Protection Act - 1992 Newfoundland and Labrador - Historic Resources Act - 1990 Yukon - Historic Sites and Monuments - 1986??? Historic Resources - 1991 Northwest Territories - Historic Resources Act - 1988 Nunavut - Historic Resources Act - 1988 Ontario - Ontario Heritage Act 1993 Heritage Conservation Act 1979 Saskatchewan - The Heritage Property Act - 1980 Manitoba - The Heritage Manitoba Act - 1987 The Heritage Resources Act - 1985 Quebec - Cultural Property Act - 1972 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Trnka, Joe" To: "ACRA List (E-mail)" , "EP Listserve (E-mail)" , "DOT Listserve (E-mail)" Subject: archaeological resources in construction projects at RAF Lakenhea th Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:18:55 -0500 For those of you who are interested in such things, there's a great non-scholarly story on how the US Air Force is dealing with archaeological resources in construction projects at Royal Air Force (RAF) Lakenheath in the UK. The link is: http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0502/bones.html FYI, as a tenant at RAF Lakenheath, the Air Force is obligated to comply with British (not US) laws & policy when dealing with archaeological resources. Thus, there are differences in how archaeological resources are dealt with at RAF Lakenheath when compared to how it is done here in the US. Joe ======================== Joseph Trnka Project Manager/Environmental Scientist Howard R. Green Company 8710 Earhart Lane SW, PO Box 9009 Cedar Rapids, IA 52409-9009 Phone: (319) 841-4380, (800) 728-7805 Fax: (319) 841-4012 Email: jtrnka@hrgreen.com Web Site: http://www.hrgreen.com Stapp's Ironical Paradox: "The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." Col John Paul Stapp, Edwards AFB --__--__-- _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l End of acra-l Digest From maxwell445@charter.net Fri May 3 10:14:01 2002 From: maxwell445@charter.net (Ginny Bengston) Date: Fri May 3 09:14:01 2002 Subject: Position Announcement - Anthropology Assistant Message-ID: <004e01c1f2ac$d0ea0960$9d00a8c0@c1591211a> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C1F272.24374500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Position Announcement Anthropology Assistant Reno, Nevada SWCA, Inc. Environmental Consultants is a growing natural and cultural = resources consulting firm with offices throughout the West. In 20 years = we have expanded to over 300 employees in 12 cities. Our Reno, Nevada = office is now accepting applications for an Anthropology Assistant. = This entry-level position requires the ability to perform a variety of = assignments, including literature and archival research and providing = support for fieldwork and report write-up. Our Reno office is a = growing, dynamic work place with a commitment to encouraging innovative = thinking and individuality. Job Description: Must be able to assist the Senior Cultural = Anthropologist with ethnographic, ethnohistoric, Native American consultation, and similar projects.=20 Responsibilities: Literature and archival research and ability to = organize the data for use in analysis and report production. Assisting = with fieldwork. Assisting with report write-up. Ability to complete work = in a timely manner. Minimum Qualifications: Completion of substantial university/college = course work in Anthropology or related field, B.A or B.S. degree = preferred. Good organizational skills and the ability to meet scheduled = deadlines. Good verbal, analytical and interpersonal skills; ability to = work as member of a team; and to communicate orally and in writing with = clients, agencies, and other employees. SWCA is an employee-owned firm and an Equal Opportunity Employer. We = encourage minorities and women to apply. Wages will be commensurate with education and experience. The position = is temporary but has the possibility of becoming a regular part- or = full- time position. The actual work schedule is flexible between the = hours of 8-5 Monday through Friday. Overtime wages are paid for more = than 40 hours worked in a week. For regular employees, a generous = benefit package includes health and dental insurance, holidays, sick = leave, vacation time, and a 401(k) plan. This position will remain open until filled, but qualified candidates = will be considered as applications are received. For consideration, = please send a cover letter, your resume outlining education, previous = experience, and all relevant qualifications, and a minimum of three = references by standard mail, fax, or e-mail to the address below: Ginny Bengston Senior Cultural Anthropologist SWCA, Inc. Environmental Consultants 5370 Kietzke Lane, Suite 205 Reno, Nevada 89511 Phone: 775.826.1700 Fax: 775.826.1713 Email: gbengston@swca.com Visit our website at www.swca.com ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C1F272.24374500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Position Announcement

Anthropology Assistant
Reno,=20 Nevada


SWCA, Inc. Environmental Consultants is a growing = natural=20 and cultural resources consulting firm with offices throughout the=20 West. In 20 years we have expanded to over 300 employees in 12=20 cities.  Our Reno, Nevada office is now accepting applications = for an=20 Anthropology Assistant.  This entry-level position requires = the=20 ability to perform a variety of assignments, including literature = and=20 archival research and providing support for fieldwork and report=20 write-up.  Our Reno office is a growing, dynamic work place = with a=20 commitment to encouraging innovative thinking and = individuality.

Job=20 Description: Must be able to assist the Senior = Cultural Anthropologist with=20 ethnographic, ethnohistoric, Native American
consultation, and = similar=20 projects. 

Responsibilities: Literature and archival = research and=20 ability to organize the data for use in analysis and report=20 production. Assisting with fieldwork. Assisting with report=20 write-up. Ability to complete work in a timely = manner.

Minimum=20 Qualifications: Completion of substantial university/college course = work=20 in Anthropology or related field, B.A or B.S. degree = preferred. Good=20 organizational skills and the ability to meet=20 scheduled deadlines. Good verbal, analytical and interpersonal = skills;=20 ability to work as member of a team; and to communicate orally and = in=20 writing with clients, agencies, and other employees.

SWCA is = an=20 employee-owned firm and an Equal Opportunity Employer.  = We encourage=20 minorities and women to apply.

Wages will be commensurate with = education=20 and experience.  The position is temporary but has the = possibility of=20 becoming a regular part- or full- time position.  The actual = work=20 schedule is flexible between the hours of 8-5 Monday through = Friday. =20 Overtime wages are paid for more than 40 hours worked in a = week.  For=20 regular employees, a generous benefit package includes health and = dental=20 insurance, holidays, sick leave, vacation time, and a 401(k)=20 plan.

This position will remain open until filled, but qualified=20 candidates will be considered as applications are received.  = For=20 consideration, please send a cover letter, your resume outlining = education,=20 previous experience, and all relevant qualifications, and a minimum = of=20 three references by standard mail, fax, or e-mail to the address=20 below:

Ginny Bengston
Senior Cultural Anthropologist
SWCA, = Inc.=20 Environmental Consultants
5370 Kietzke Lane, Suite 205
Reno, = Nevada=20 89511
Phone: 775.826.1700
Fax: 775.826.1713
Email: gbengston@swca.com
Visit our website at www.swca.com

------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C1F272.24374500-- From itchy_scrotum1970@yahoo.com Fri May 3 12:38:01 2002 From: itchy_scrotum1970@yahoo.com (Itchy Scrotum) Date: Fri May 3 11:38:01 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #103 - 4 msgs In-Reply-To: <200205021701.g42H1Ed23198@zibal.hubris.net> Message-ID: <20020503163752.34727.qmail@web14408.mail.yahoo.com> We use a Compaq Ipaq for data entry in the field. The format we use is an ascii text file that is comma delimited. All of our data files are text files that way there are no worries about cross application and cross platform compatability. So far it works pretty good. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From itchy_scrotum1970@yahoo.com Fri May 3 15:02:02 2002 From: itchy_scrotum1970@yahoo.com (Itchy Scrotum) Date: Fri May 3 14:02:02 2002 Subject: defnition In-Reply-To: <200205031701.g43H17d32377@zibal.hubris.net> Message-ID: <20020503190114.14120.qmail@web14401.mail.yahoo.com> What is administrivia ===== * I've got big balls ************************************ * I've got big balls ************************************ * And they're such big balls **************************** * Dirty big balls *************************************** * And he's got big balls ******************************** * And she's got big balls ******************************* * But we've got the biggest balls of them all *********** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From Douglas.Mackey@oprhp.state.ny.us Fri May 3 15:05:02 2002 From: Douglas.Mackey@oprhp.state.ny.us (Mackey, Douglas (PEB)) Date: Fri May 3 14:05:02 2002 Subject: defnition Message-ID: time to remove this person from the list! -----Original Message----- From: Itchy Scrotum [mailto:itchy_scrotum1970@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:01 PM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: defnition What is administrivia ===== * I've got big balls ************************************ * I've got big balls ************************************ * And they're such big balls **************************** * Dirty big balls *************************************** * And he's got big balls ******************************** * And she's got big balls ******************************* * But we've got the biggest balls of them all *********** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From david.harvey@pnl.gov Fri May 3 15:12:02 2002 From: david.harvey@pnl.gov (Harvey, David W) Date: Fri May 3 14:12:02 2002 Subject: defnition Message-ID: <577D21741BA4894881F4D3DE36D9CEB10354F37A@pnlmse14.pnl.gov> But you are the biggest jerk of them all. Get a life, loser. Better not let your Mom catch you writing such nasty words. She might make you move out of your basement bedroom, and take away your allowance. ---------- From: Itchy Scrotum Sent: Friday, May 3, 2002 12:01 PM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: defnition What is administrivia ===== * I've got big balls ************************************ * I've got big balls ************************************ * And they're such big balls **************************** * Dirty big balls *************************************** * And he's got big balls ******************************** * And she's got big balls ******************************* * But we've got the biggest balls of them all *********** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From mreckner@tcinternet.net Fri May 3 15:17:02 2002 From: mreckner@tcinternet.net (Mark S Reckner) Date: Fri May 3 14:17:02 2002 Subject: Spam Message-ID: <001e01c1f2d7$113745d0$bab0fad8@smiling997nkv3> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C1F2AD.28335000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, please castrate Mr. Scrotum. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C1F2AD.28335000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, please castrate Mr.=20 Scrotum.
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C1F2AD.28335000-- From Dick" Message-ID: <006701c1f2d8$bb78d300$0bb41bac@hr> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C1F2B7.315D0040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friends, just execute the 'Block Sender' option under the 'Message' Menu = for the offending individual. Don't even bother to rail against such = types (they love it) just block 'em and ignore 'em. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark S Reckner=20 To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net=20 Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:16 PM Subject: Spam Yes, please castrate Mr. Scrotum. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C1F2B7.315D0040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Friends, just execute the 'Block = Sender' option=20 under the 'Message' Menu for the offending individual. Don't even bother = to rail=20 against such types (they love it) just block 'em and ignore = 'em.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark S=20 Reckner
To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net =
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:16 = PM
Subject: Spam

Yes, please castrate Mr.=20 Scrotum.
------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C1F2B7.315D0040-- From itchy_scrotum1970@yahoo.com Fri May 3 15:31:01 2002 From: itchy_scrotum1970@yahoo.com (Itchy Scrotum) Date: Fri May 3 14:31:01 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #104 - 5 msgs In-Reply-To: <200205031701.g43H17d32377@zibal.hubris.net> Message-ID: <20020503193054.49938.qmail@web14406.mail.yahoo.com> Geez, I dosabled my email tag already. lighten up its only music. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From Jennefer Donahue" Message-ID: Come on, folks, just because the person has a questionable reply name and quotes AC/DC as his tag, let's not get our delicate sensibilities all in a huff. I seem to remember them making a legitimate reply to the thread about databases earlier today, about using IPAQ's in the field and text based files. That didn't look like Spam to me. Or maybe I was the only one who read it. Relax ----- Original Message ----- From: "Itchy Scrotum" To: Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: Re: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #104 - 5 msgs > Geez, I dosabled my email tag already. lighten up its > only music. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l > From Michael.Schifferli@oprhp.state.ny.us Fri May 3 15:50:02 2002 From: Michael.Schifferli@oprhp.state.ny.us (Schifferli, Michael (PEB)) Date: Fri May 3 14:50:02 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #104 - 5 msgs Message-ID: dated material -----Original Message----- From: Jennefer Donahue [mailto:jenneferdonahue@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 3:39 PM To: Itchy Scrotum Cc: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Re: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #104 - 5 msgs Come on, folks, just because the person has a questionable reply name and quotes AC/DC as his tag, let's not get our delicate sensibilities all in a huff. I seem to remember them making a legitimate reply to the thread about databases earlier today, about using IPAQ's in the field and text based files. That didn't look like Spam to me. Or maybe I was the only one who read it. Relax ----- Original Message ----- From: "Itchy Scrotum" To: Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: Re: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #104 - 5 msgs > Geez, I dosabled my email tag already. lighten up its > only music. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l > _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From bmartin@swca.com Fri May 3 17:30:02 2002 From: bmartin@swca.com (Bill Martin) Date: Fri May 3 16:30:02 2002 Subject: Cattle Message-ID: <000001c1f2e1$4464baa0$3500000a@denver.swca.com> Dear List I'm handling the cultural resource section for an EIS for a Grazing Management Plan for a National Monument here in the west. Does anyone know of source in a readily accessible, peer-reviewed publication about the effects of cattle/livestock grazing on archaeological sites? I'm sure the gray literature has numerous examples, but I would prefer to work from published material. Thanks for the help. Bill Martin SWCA Inc., Environmental Consultants bmartin@swca.com 303.487.1183 From maxwell445@charter.net Fri May 3 19:38:02 2002 From: maxwell445@charter.net (Ginny Bengston) Date: Fri May 3 18:38:02 2002 Subject: Position Announcement for Anthropology Assistant Message-ID: <001f01c1f2fb$8ea1dc50$9d00a8c0@c1591211a> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C1F2C0.E1EBE3A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is in response to an email I received earlier today from Ms. A. = Jackson, who said that the ACRA list was primarily for archaeologists = and other cultural resource professionals and that it was not a good = place to post my position announcement for an anthropology assistant. = She also suggested that I set up an internship program with UNR. It = would be a good opportunity for a student or for an internship. By the = way, UNR did not seem too interested in an internship situation.=20 Actually, ACRA is a perfect place for this job to be posted. Whoever I = choose to hire will be working directly for me, a cultural = anthropologist and a cultural resource professional. And a large portion = of the work that I do revolves around NHPA, NAGPRA, and other cultural = resource laws and legislation, in an effort to identify and record = historic properties, called Traditional Cultural Properties. So, yes, = this list is a most appropriate place for this position announcement. Ginny Bengston ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C1F2C0.E1EBE3A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is in response to an = email I=20 received earlier today from Ms. A. Jackson, who said that the = ACRA=20 list was primarily for archaeologists and other cultural resource = professionals=20 and that it was not a good place to post my position announcement for an = anthropology assistant. She also suggested that I set up an internship = program=20 with UNR. It would be a good = opportunity=20 for a student or for an internship. By the way, UNR did not seem=20 too interested in an internship = situation. 
 
Actually, ACRA is a perfect = place for=20 this job to be posted. Whoever I choose to hire will be = working=20 directly for me, a cultural anthropologist and a cultural resource = professional.=20 And a large portion of the work that I do revolves around = NHPA,=20 NAGPRA, and other cultural resource laws and legislation, in an effort = to=20 identify and record historic properties, called Traditional Cultural = Properties.=20 So, yes, this list is a most appropriate place for this = position=20 announcement.
 
Ginny Bengston
 
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C1F2C0.E1EBE3A0-- From adrianna_jackson@yahoo.com Sat May 4 15:23:02 2002 From: adrianna_jackson@yahoo.com (Adrianna Jackson) Date: Sat May 4 14:23:02 2002 Subject: That is so cool Message-ID: <20020504192208.66487.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Are there cultural anthropologist on this list? That's great! I always thought they avoided this list, at least they do were I come from (CSUN). Personally, I am a art historian/working archaeologist, I am just finishing my second masters. I always thought I was the oddball on this list. Adrianna __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com Sat May 4 19:19:02 2002 From: tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com (Tom Wheaton) Date: Sat May 4 18:19:02 2002 Subject: Fwd: TRB Summer Meeting Announcement Message-ID: > > >Tom, > >Can you post information on the TRB's A1F05 Committee summer >workshop to be held in Kansas City on July 18-20, 2002? All you need >to include is a link to the committee web site and then folks can >see the link to the meeting brochure. The URL for the committee web >site is: http://itre.ncsu.edu/A1F05/ > >Thanks! > >Terry H. Klein >Assistant Executive Director >SRI Foundation >333 Rio Rancho Drive >Suite 103 >Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 >Phone: (505) 892-5587 >Fax: (505) 896-1136 -- Tom Wheaton (at home) From asteffen@unm.edu Sat May 4 21:14:02 2002 From: asteffen@unm.edu (anastasia steffen) Date: Sat May 4 20:14:02 2002 Subject: Cattle In-Reply-To: <200205041703.g44H33d12321@zibal.hubris.net> Message-ID: <2632976138.1020540225@dial260.unm.edu> I also am very interested in finding discussions of potential effects of cattle grazing. If the treatment is especially good, even gray literature references would be appreciated. If any one can make any suggestions, be sure to post them to the whole list. Thanks! Reply-To: From: "Bill Martin" To: "ACRA List (E-mail)" Subject: Cattle Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:29:46 -0500 Dear List I'm handling the cultural resource section for an EIS for a Grazing Management Plan for a National Monument here in the west. Does anyone know of source in a readily accessible, peer-reviewed publication about the effects of cattle/livestock grazing on archaeological sites? I'm sure the gray literature has numerous examples, but I would prefer to work from published material. Thanks for the help. Bill Martin SWCA Inc., Environmental Consultants bmartin@swca.com 303.487.1183 From mlerch@sricrm.com Sat May 4 21:59:02 2002 From: mlerch@sricrm.com (Mike Lerch) Date: Sat May 4 20:59:02 2002 Subject: Cattle References: <2632976138.1020540225@dial260.unm.edu> Message-ID: <002801c1f3d8$1b63dee0$d15c2640@Mike> A classic article on the effects of cattle grazing on lithic artifacts is: Flenniken, J. Jeffrey, and James C. Haggarty 1979 Trampling as an agency in the formation of edge damage: an experiment in lithic technology. Northwest Anthropological Research Notes 13:21-27. ___________________________________________ Michael K. Lerch (909) 335-1896 Statistical Research, Inc. mlerch@sricrm.com ----- Original Message ----- From: anastasia steffen To: Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 6:23 PM Subject: Cattle > I also am very interested in finding discussions of potential effects of > cattle grazing. If the treatment is especially good, even gray literature > references would be appreciated. If any one can make any suggestions, be > sure to post them to the whole list. > Thanks! > > > Reply-To: > From: "Bill Martin" > To: "ACRA List (E-mail)" > Subject: Cattle > Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:29:46 -0500 > > Dear List > > I'm handling the cultural resource section for an EIS for a Grazing > Management Plan for a National Monument here in the west. Does anyone know > of source in a readily accessible, peer-reviewed publication about the > effects of cattle/livestock grazing on archaeological sites? I'm sure the > gray literature has numerous examples, but I would prefer to work from > published material. Thanks for the help. > > Bill Martin > SWCA Inc., Environmental Consultants > bmartin@swca.com > 303.487.1183 > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l > From archaeo2@juno.com Mon May 6 07:29:01 2002 From: archaeo2@juno.com (archaeo2@juno.com) Date: Mon May 6 06:29:01 2002 Subject: Cattle Message-ID: <20010822.071650.-220755.0.archaeo2@juno.com> The effects of cattle grazing on archaeological sites MAY be addressed in the reports from the Little Creek Mesa, Utah work that has been conducted there over the past 25 or so years (so I hear...). One may even find some good long term data. My field school was held there in 1979 and they were chaining the area in preparation for livestock grazing. The project directors were Dr's Margaret Lieness (UNLV) and Richard Thompson (SUSC). We surveyed a large portion of this very large mesa top and we excavated a pit house site. Jack Mauldin ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From Michael.Schifferli@oprhp.state.ny.us Mon May 6 09:45:02 2002 From: Michael.Schifferli@oprhp.state.ny.us (Schifferli, Michael (PEB)) Date: Mon May 6 08:45:02 2002 Subject: Cattle Message-ID: A good starting point might be some general BLM literature from the Southwest. A lot has been done. Some specific sources that may be of interest to you are: NPS Technical Brief NO. 5, September 1989, Intentional Site Burial: A Technique to Protect against Natural or Mechanical Loss, By Robert M. Thorne NPS Technical Brief No. 8, September 1990 (revised March 1992), Revegetation: The Soft Approach to Archeological Site Stabilization, By Robert M. Thorne NPS Technical Brief No.12, December 1991, Site Stabilization Information Sources, By Robert M. Thorne We found them extremely helpful in stabilizing an NRL Early Woodland Village with human burials that had been grazed on for years. The folks at NRCS, on the regional level, were very accommodating as well. Michael P. Schifferli New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation Field Services Bureau PO Box 189, Peebles Island Waterford, New York 12188-0189 518-237-8643 x.3281 michael.schifferli@oprhp.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: anastasia steffen [mailto:asteffen@unm.edu] Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 9:24 PM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Cattle I also am very interested in finding discussions of potential effects of cattle grazing. If the treatment is especially good, even gray literature references would be appreciated. If any one can make any suggestions, be sure to post them to the whole list. Thanks! Reply-To: From: "Bill Martin" To: "ACRA List (E-mail)" Subject: Cattle Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:29:46 -0500 Dear List I'm handling the cultural resource section for an EIS for a Grazing Management Plan for a National Monument here in the west. Does anyone know of source in a readily accessible, peer-reviewed publication about the effects of cattle/livestock grazing on archaeological sites? I'm sure the gray literature has numerous examples, but I would prefer to work from published material. Thanks for the help. Bill Martin SWCA Inc., Environmental Consultants bmartin@swca.com 303.487.1183 _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From SAGEB@aol.com Mon May 6 12:11:01 2002 From: SAGEB@aol.com (SAGEB@aol.com) Date: Mon May 6 11:11:01 2002 Subject: Early Petroleum History Sites Message-ID: <17a.7de5641.2a0804de@aol.com> --part1_17a.7de5641.2a0804de_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another interesting historic site found on the web is the: The Petroleum History Site Ring. It covers "Early Petroleum History Sites" and includes: - Early Petroleum History -Oil and Gas Museum, Parkersburg, West Virginia -Steam and Gas Compressor Stations in West Virginia -Whatever Happened to Standard Oil? and various other items. Pretty interesting. go to: http://pub16.bravenet.com/sitering/nav.php?usernum=1294000941& action=list&siteid=37730 Mike Polk Sagebrush Consultants, L.L.C. Ogden, Utah --part1_17a.7de5641.2a0804de_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another interesting historic site found on the web is the:
The Petroleum History Site Ring.  It covers "Early Petroleum History Sites" and includes:

- Early Petroleum History
-Oil and Gas Museum, Parkersburg, West Virginia
-Steam and Gas Compressor Stations in West Virginia
-Whatever Happened to Standard Oil?
and various other items.  Pretty interesting.

go to:  http://pub16.bravenet.com/sitering/nav.php?usernum=1294000941&action=list&siteid=37730

Mike Polk
Sagebrush Consultants, L.L.C.
Ogden, Utah





--part1_17a.7de5641.2a0804de_boundary-- From Allan.Morton@de.mod.uk Tue May 7 08:24:01 2002 From: Allan.Morton@de.mod.uk (Allan.Morton@de.mod.uk) Date: Tue May 7 07:24:01 2002 Subject: Cattle Message-ID: <85F7E3C3970FD4118915009027CA5726191D03@igate.rmil.uk> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C1F5CA.AE561300 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01C1F5CA.AE3607E0" ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C1F5CA.AE3607E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recipient(s): WARNING - CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and its contents have been certified at the appropriate classification, and cleared for transmission via the Internet, by the originator. The information contained in this e-mail is private and confidential and for the above named recipient(s) only. For persons other than the intended recipient(s), any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of the e-mail or information contained therein is prohibited and may be unlawful without prior approval from the originator. If you have received it in error, please notify the originator by reply e-mail and delete it from your system. ************************************************************************ ********************************** Message: Bill: Carefully controlled livestock grazing is essential for maintenance of the 2500 archaeological sites on Salisbury Plain Training Area. Part of my area is within the Stonehenge World Heritage Site and there may be some good data for you in a suitably peer-reviewed publication from English Heritage. Stonehenge World Heritage Site Management Plan, Chris Blandford Assoc., 2000, ISBN: 1 85074 782 2 English Heritage 23 Savile Row London, W1X 1AB It may be available online at: http://apollo5.bournemouth.ac.uk/consci/stonehenge/ Also see: Grenville, J. 1999. Managing the Historic Rural Landscape. Routledge, London. Berry A.Q. 1994. Erosion on Archaeological Earthworks: It's Prevention, Control and Repair. Clwyd County Council. Hope that helps. _________________________________________ Allan Morton, M.Phil., Ph.D., R.P.A. Environmental Advisor (Archaeology) Ministry of Defence Salisbury Plain Training Area Wiltshire, England -----Original Message----- From: Bill Martin [mailto:bmartin@swca.com] Sent: 03 May 2002 21:30 To: ACRA List (E-mail) Subject: Cattle Dear List I'm handling the cultural resource section for an EIS for a Grazing Management Plan for a National Monument here in the west. Does anyone know of source in a readily accessible, peer-reviewed publication about the effects of cattle/livestock grazing on archaeological sites? I'm sure the gray literature has numerous examples, but I would prefer to work from published material. Thanks for the help. Bill Martin SWCA Inc., Environmental Consultants bmartin@swca.com 303.487.1183 _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C1F5CA.AE3607E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Recipient(s):   <B. Martin>

        =       WARNING - CONFIDENTIALITY = NOTICE

This e-mail and its contents have been certified at = the appropriate
classification, and cleared for transmission via the = Internet, by the
originator.  The information contained in this = e-mail is private and
confidential and for the above named recipient(s) = only.  For persons
other than the intended recipient(s), any use, = disclosure, copying or
distribution of the e-mail or information contained = therein is
prohibited and may be unlawful without prior approval = from the
originator.  If you have received it in error, = please notify the
originator by reply e-mail and delete it from your = system.
****************************************************************= ********
**********************************
Message:

Bill:

Carefully controlled livestock grazing is essential = for maintenance of the 2500 archaeological sites on Salisbury Plain = Training Area. Part of my area is within the Stonehenge World Heritage = Site and there may be some good data for you in a suitably peer-reviewed = publication from English Heritage.

Stonehenge World Heritage Site Management Plan, Chris = Blandford Assoc., 2000,
ISBN: 1 85074 782 2
English Heritage
23 Savile Row
London, W1X 1AB

It may be available online at:
http://apollo5.bournemouth.ac.uk/consci/stonehenge/=

Also see:
Grenville, J. 1999. Managing the Historic Rural = Landscape. Routledge, London.

Berry A.Q. 1994. Erosion on Archaeological Earthworks: = It's Prevention, Control and Repair. Clwyd County Council.

Hope that helps.
_________________________________________
Allan Morton, M.Phil., Ph.D., R.P.A.
Environmental Advisor (Archaeology)
Ministry of Defence
Salisbury Plain Training Area
Wiltshire, England


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Martin [mailto:bmartin@swca.com]
Sent: 03 May 2002 21:30
To: ACRA List (E-mail)
Subject: Cattle


Dear List

I'm handling the cultural resource section for an EIS = for a Grazing
Management Plan for a National Monument here in the = west.  Does anyone know
of source in a readily accessible, peer-reviewed = publication about the
effects of cattle/livestock grazing on archaeological = sites?  I'm sure the
gray literature has numerous examples, but I would = prefer to work from
published material.  Thanks for the help.

Bill Martin
SWCA Inc., Environmental Consultants
bmartin@swca.com
303.487.1183

_______________________________________________
acra-l mailing list
acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net
http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l<= /FONT>

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No specific reasons have been given for this measure, which >represents going back to the state of things that existed in 1994 and was >largely responsible for the disastrous management of that affair by the >heritage authorities of the time. The fact that the new government is >largely made up of the same people and political parties who were in office >back then may explain this decision to some extent. I remain confident that >the radical transformation and the major achievements of Portuguese >archaeology over the past five years will survive this setback. Nonetheless, >this announcement left me no other choice but to offer my immediate >resignation, which has already been accepted. At this stage, my professional >future is uncertain, so, for any contacts, and until further notice, please >use my home e-mail and home postal address below: > >Joao Zilhao >Rua Prof. Joao Barreira, Porta C, 3H >1600-634 Telheiras >Portugal >joao.zilhao@mail.telepac.pt > >With all best wishes > >Joao ZIlhao For all of those who have met Joao and were not in his list, I thought you might like to know. He received an award from the European Association of Archaeologists a couple of years ago for his and his agency's extraordinary work in protecting Portugals heritage at Coa. He wrote the excellent defense of his agency's protection of rock art in the Alqueva reservoir that was being attacked by some people with dubious motives. I only met him a couple of times, most recently in Denver at SAA, but from those meetings and what I have heard about him, he is a hardworking, dedicated archaeologist who has done wonders for Portugese archaeological heritage. -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html From Dan.Flemmer@nd.usda.gov Tue May 7 11:51:01 2002 From: Dan.Flemmer@nd.usda.gov (Dan FLemmer) Date: Tue May 7 10:51:01 2002 Subject: Cattle References: <000001c1f2e1$4464baa0$3500000a@denver.swca.com> Message-ID: <3CD7F624.2C120F0E@nd.usda.gov> See: "An Experimental Investigation of the Effects of trampling on the REsults of Lithic Microwear Analysis" by John J. Shea and Joel D. Klenck. Journal of Archaeological Science 1993, 20, 175-194. "Impacts of Domestic Livestock Grazing on the Archeological Resources of Capitol Reef National Park, Utah." by Alan Osborn, Susan Vetter, Ralph Hartley, Laurie Walsh, and Jesslyn Brown. Midwest Archeological Center Occasional Studies in Anthropology Number 20. (Utah Project # U86-NA-266N; National Park Service and University of Nebraska, Lincoln). These two should get you started. "D" Bill Martin wrote: > Dear List > > I'm handling the cultural resource section for an EIS for a Grazing > Management Plan for a National Monument here in the west. Does anyone know > of source in a readily accessible, peer-reviewed publication about the > effects of cattle/livestock grazing on archaeological sites? I'm sure the > gray literature has numerous examples, but I would prefer to work from > published material. Thanks for the help. > > Bill Martin > SWCA Inc., Environmental Consultants > bmartin@swca.com > 303.487.1183 > > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From Fennelle.Miller@METROKC.GOV Tue May 7 19:29:01 2002 From: Fennelle.Miller@METROKC.GOV (Miller, Fennelle) Date: Tue May 7 18:29:01 2002 Subject: Conveyors Message-ID: <0A783574FBD0D311B3B000805FE672930CA15D34@kcmail1.metrokc.gov> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F61E.EA020FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A friend is looking for 4, 20- to 40-foot conveyors, to bring earth from an area of excavation to a screen location some distance away. He is talking about a very large quantity of materials. Does anyone know where one could find such equipment, for rent or purchase? The closer to the Pacific Northwest the better. Alternatively, if someone has a better idea of how to make this task easier, please let me know. Please reply off-list. Thanks! Fennelle Miller ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F61E.EA020FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Conveyors

A friend is looking for 4, 20- to 40-foot conveyors, = to bring earth from an area of excavation to a screen location some = distance away. He is talking about a very large quantity of materials. = Does anyone know where one could find such equipment, for rent or = purchase? The closer to the Pacific Northwest the better.

Alternatively, if someone has a better idea of how to = make this task easier, please let me know.

Please reply off-list.

Thanks!

Fennelle Miller

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F61E.EA020FE0-- From saustin@sydcom.net Wed May 8 10:30:02 2002 From: saustin@sydcom.net (Stephen P. Austin) Date: Wed May 8 09:30:02 2002 Subject: Conveyors References: <0A783574FBD0D311B3B000805FE672930CA15D34@kcmail1.metrokc.gov> Message-ID: <001c01c1f69c$c1adabc0$5e1860cc@oemcomputer> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C1F672.D82FCB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ConveyorsLocal farmers - ask if they will 'rent' their conveyers for a = period of time. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Miller, Fennelle=20 To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 6:28 PM Subject: Conveyors A friend is looking for 4, 20- to 40-foot conveyors, to bring earth = from an area of excavation to a screen location some distance away. He = is talking about a very large quantity of materials. Does anyone know = where one could find such equipment, for rent or purchase? The closer to = the Pacific Northwest the better. Alternatively, if someone has a better idea of how to make this task = easier, please let me know.=20 Please reply off-list.=20 Thanks!=20 Fennelle Miller=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C1F672.D82FCB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Conveyors
Local farmers - ask if they will 'rent' their = conveyers for a=20 period of time.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Miller, Fennelle =
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 = 6:28 PM
Subject: Conveyors

A friend is looking for 4, 20- to 40-foot conveyors, = to bring=20 earth from an area of excavation to a screen location some distance = away. He=20 is talking about a very large quantity of materials. Does anyone know = where=20 one could find such equipment, for rent or purchase? The closer to the = Pacific=20 Northwest the better.

Alternatively, if someone has a better idea of how = to make=20 this task easier, please let me know.

Please reply off-list.

Thanks!

Fennelle Miller =

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C1F672.D82FCB00-- From Douglas.Mackey@oprhp.state.ny.us Wed May 8 11:18:02 2002 From: Douglas.Mackey@oprhp.state.ny.us (Mackey, Douglas (PEB)) Date: Wed May 8 10:18:02 2002 Subject: Conveyors Message-ID: Or check with equipment rental companies in the area. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen P. Austin [mailto:saustin@sydcom.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:29 AM To: Miller, Fennelle; acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Re: Conveyors Local farmers - ask if they will 'rent' their conveyers for a period of time. ----- Original Message ----- From: Miller, Fennelle To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 6:28 PM Subject: Conveyors A friend is looking for 4, 20- to 40-foot conveyors, to bring earth from an area of excavation to a screen location some distance away. He is talking about a very large quantity of materials. Does anyone know where one could find such equipment, for rent or purchase? The closer to the Pacific Northwest the better. Alternatively, if someone has a better idea of how to make this task easier, please let me know. Please reply off-list. Thanks! Fennelle Miller From bambi@itc.org Wed May 8 15:03:02 2002 From: bambi@itc.org (D. Bambi Kraus) Date: Wed May 8 14:03:02 2002 Subject: Program Manager (Preservation) Message-ID: <3CD9764B.EEC1EFB1@itc.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6408BFFF6989E3381793BE11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://jsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/summary.asp?OPMControl=IC7984 -- D. Bambi Kraus Tel (202) 454-5664 Fax (202) 466-7706 Cell (202) 258-2101 --------------6408BFFF6989E3381793BE11 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1; name="summary.asp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline; filename="summary.asp" Content-Base: "http://jsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/summary .asp?OPMControl=IC7984" Content-Location: "http://jsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/summary .asp?OPMControl=IC7984" USAJOBS - Job Selection List = =
= 3D"USAJobs<= /a>
3D"Skip3D"Link3D"Email3D"Link3D"Link3D=3D"Link		 3D= 3D"The

View announcement = for NPSWASO-02-041
www.USAJ= OBS.opm.gov, the U. S. Government's official source of job informatio= n, provides this information to the public at no cost.		Use back key to return to job list

(Please use this number on your application)= <= td align=3D'left' colspan=3D2>  =
Job Details
USAJOBS Control No. IC7984  FO
Open Period ends: May 17, 2002
PROGRAM MANAGER (PRESERVATION)
Salary Range: $92,060 - 119,68= 2
Series & Grade: GS-0340-15/
 
Hiring Agency:= DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR =
&nb= sp INTERIOR, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE =
 
Who May Apply: Open to Everyone
Duty Locations: WASHINGT= ON, DC
 
Announ= cement Number: NPSWASO-02-041
FAXED APPLICATIONS ARE BEING ACCEPTED. = FAX NUMBER: 202-208-3522 =
 
Please review the= announcement for qualification requirements and information on how to ap= ply.
 
Job Relat= ed Links:
View vacancy announcement
 
For addition= al information, contact: NATIONAL PARK SERVICE 202 208-5574
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Or write: NATIONAL PARK SERVI= CE  
&n= bsp OFFICE OF HUMAN RESOURCE  
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--------------6408BFFF6989E3381793BE11-- From DJWeir@ccrginc.com Thu May 9 10:39:01 2002 From: DJWeir@ccrginc.com (Don Weir) Date: Thu May 9 09:39:01 2002 Subject: Position Announcement Message-ID: Commonwealth Cultural Resources Group, Inc. (CCRG), a full-service cultural resource-consulting firm with offices in Michigan, Wisconsin and New York, desires to fill the position of Project Archaeologist in our Minocqua, Wisconsin Office. This mid-level staff position requires: experience conducting Phase 1A/1B surveys, Phase II evaluations, Phase III data recoveries; the ability to manage in-house support staff, sub-consultants, and temporary employees; and proficiency in preparing budgets and proposals. The ability to communicate with clients and review agencies, excellent writing/editing skills, and knowledge of computers is critical. Applicants should have a minimum of an M.A. in anthropology/archaeology. We desire an individual with a background in prehistoric or historic archaeology, and prior experience in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa. Areas of analytical expertise are open but demonstrated ability to conduct in-depth artifact analyses and write-ups is a must. CCRG is an EEO employer. Salary is commensurate with experience and a full range of benefits is offered (health, dental and vision insurance, life insurance, travel insurance, long-term disability insurance, paid holidays, vacation and sick leave, and a 401[k] plan with employer contribution). Please mail, fax or e-mail a letter of interest, vita, writing sample, and a list of three references by May 24, 2002 to: Katie Egan-Bruhy, Ph.D., RPA Regional Director CCRG PO Box 1061 Minocqua, WI 54548 Fax: (715) 358-6656 E-mail: eganbru@newnorth.net From Gavin.Archer@keithco.com Thu May 9 15:14:01 2002 From: Gavin.Archer@keithco.com (Gavin Archer) Date: Thu May 9 14:14:01 2002 Subject: Subconsultant Wanted - Historian Message-ID: TKC seeks a historian to participate in an Orange County, California, documentary research and evaluation project. The subject is an early 20th c. orange packing house and railroad station. ____________________________ Gavin Archer, RPA Project Manager, Archaeology The Keith Companies (714) 668-7151 http://www.keithco.com/archaeology.htm From cmniquette@crai-ky.com Thu May 9 16:42:02 2002 From: cmniquette@crai-ky.com (Charles M. Niquette) Date: Thu May 9 15:42:02 2002 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?4th_Circuit:_No_=A7_404_Permits_for_Valley_Fills?= Message-ID: <000401c1f799$41a25860$0d01a8c0@chuck> For those who might be interested: In Kentuckians for the Commonwealth v. Rivenburgh, Chief Judge Charles Haden has issued a permanent injunction and ruled that Section 404 of the Clean Water Act does not authorize the Corps to issue permits for waste disposal. This effectively prohibits the issuance of permits for valley fills and refuse impoundments. The complaint alleged that the Corps could not issue 404 permits for waste disposal because the Corps' regulations prohibited it. That problem was to have been fixed today in a joint rulemaking by the Corps and EPA. By ruling that CWA Section 404 itself prohibits the Corps from authorizing waste disposal, the 4th Circuit has ruled that the issue cannot be fixed by today's rulemaking --in fact the court says that any rulemaking that would authorize waste disposal would be beyond the statutory authority of the Corps, and is within the sole power of Congress. Find a link to an article on the decision at http://www.emlf.org/new.htm or download the ruling (a PDF file) at http://www.wvsd.uscourts.gov/opinions/kftcvace.pdf Charles M. Niquette, RPA President Cultural Resource Analysts, Inc. 143 Walton Avenue Lexington, Kentucky 40508 Voice: (859) 252-4737 Facsimile: (859) 254-3747 Web: http://www.crai-ky.com email: cmniquette@crai-ky.com From davidsr01@mindspring.com Fri May 10 07:36:02 2002 From: davidsr01@mindspring.com (David Rotenstein) Date: Fri May 10 06:36:02 2002 Subject: New Collections in American Memory Message-ID: FYI for the CRM community: -----Original Message----- From: H-Net DISCUSSION LIST FOR LOCAL AND STATE HISTORY [mailto:H-LOCAL@H-NET.MSU.EDU]On Behalf Of Randy Patton Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:16 PM To: H-LOCAL@H-NET.MSU.EDU Subject: New Collections in American Memory Good afternoon, This announcement is being sent to a number of lists. Please accept our apologies for duplicate postings. The American Memory online collections announces the addition of two new collections to the over 100 currently available on the website Working in Paterson: Occupational Heritage in an Urban Setting presents approximately 500 interview excerpts and approximately 3800 photographs from the Working in Paterson Folklife Project of the American Folklife Center at the Library of Congress. This collection can be found at the following URL: The four-month study of occupational culture in Paterson, New Jersey, was conducted in 1994. Paterson is considered to be the cradle of the Industrial Revolution in America. It was founded in 1791 by the Society for Establishing Useful Manufactures (S.U.M.), a group that had U.S. Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton as an advocate. The basis for Paterson's manufacturing potential was the Great Falls on the Passaic River. Paterson went on to become the largest silk manufacturing center in the nation as well as a leader in the manufacture of many other products, from railroad locomotives to firearms. The documentary materials presented in this online collection explore how this industrial heritage expresses itself in Paterson today: in its work sites, work processes, and memories of workers. The online presentation also includes interpretive essays exploring such topics as work in the African-American community, a distinctive food tradition (the Hot Texas Wiener), the ethnography of a single work place (Watson Machine International), business life along a single street in Paterson (21st Avenue), and narratives told by retired workers. The American Folklife Center at the Library of Congress was created by Congress in 1976 "to preserve and present American Folklife." The Center incorporates the Archive of Folk Culture, which was established at the Library in 1928 as a repository for American folk music. The Center and its collections have grown to encompass all aspects of folklife from this country and around the world. The second new American Memory collection is Emile Berliner and the Birth of the Recording Industry. Available at , the collection is a selection of more than 400 items from the Emile Berliner Papers and 108 Berliner sound recordings from the Library of Congress's Motion Picture, Broadcasting and Recorded Sound Division. Berliner (1851-1929), an immigrant and a largely self-educated man, was responsible for the development of the microphone, the flat recording disc and the gramophone player. Although the focus of this online collection is on the gramophone and its recordings, it includes much evidence of Berliner's other interests, such as information on his businesses, his crusades for public-health issues, his philanthropy, his musical composition, and even his poetry. Spanning the years 1870 to 1956, the collection comprises correspondence, articles, lectures, speeches, scrapbooks, photographs, catalogs, clippings, experiment notes, and rare sound recordings. More than 100 sound recordings from the Berliner Gramophone Co. are featured on the site, demonstrating the various genres produced in the 1890s, including band music, instrumentals, comedy, spoken word, popular songs, opera, and foreign-language songs. Noted performers such as the Sousa Band appear, and rarities are featured such as a recording of Buffalo Bill giving his Sentiments on the Cuban Question just prior to the Spanish-American War and Native-American ghost dances recorded by the noted ethnologist James Mooney. Please direct any questions to From FISHSPIN@aol.com Fri May 10 07:52:01 2002 From: FISHSPIN@aol.com (FISHSPIN@aol.com) Date: Fri May 10 06:52:01 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #110 - 2 msgs Message-ID: <4d.1deb1aa5.2a0d0e26@aol.com> --part1_4d.1deb1aa5.2a0d0e26_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What happened to this issue of acra-l? --part1_4d.1deb1aa5.2a0d0e26_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What happened to this issue of acra-l? --part1_4d.1deb1aa5.2a0d0e26_boundary-- From jbrandon@hardlinesdesign.com Fri May 10 11:16:02 2002 From: jbrandon@hardlinesdesign.com (R. Joe Brandon - Director of Archaeology) Date: Fri May 10 10:16:02 2002 Subject: Unanticipated job hazard Message-ID: All right, while this borders on spam, I had to forward this newly discovered job hazard to the list :) Best, R. Joe Brandon http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=573&e=6&cid=573&u=/nm/20020 509/od_nm/cannons_dc_1 Ancient Cannonballs Come to Life with a Bang Thu May 9,10:43 AM ET LONDON (Reuters) - Cannon balls retrieved from ancient shipwrecks are wreaking thunderous havoc centuries later -- by exploding on the desks of archaeologists, New Scientist magazine said Wednesday. Robert Child, of the National Museums and Galleries of Wales in Cardiff, told the magazine that he had recorded several instances where the old rusted balls of metal started to heat up and turn red, or explode after being exposed to oxygen. In one case, a ball retrieved from a 1691 wreck heated up to a few hundred degrees after several minutes in the open air, began to glow a dull red and started burning its way through the pine table. "There was smoke coming off the bench," he told the magazine. Child said in several cases the prized artifacts had split open many weeks after they were pulled from the sea. He said the explosions happened because the balls had developed a lattice-like porous structure over hundreds of years that reacted with oxygen to produce massive amounts of heat. The combination of oxygen and sea salt caused rapid oxidation resulting in the balls "exploding" open and crumbling into bits. -------------------------- R. Joe Brandon Director of Archaeology Hardlines Design Company 4608 Indianola Ave Columbus, Oh 43214 614-784-8733 (phone) 614-783-8202 (cell) 614-784-9336 (fax) www.hardlinesdesign.com -------------------------- From tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com Fri May 10 13:07:02 2002 From: tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com (Tom Wheaton) Date: Fri May 10 12:07:02 2002 Subject: Permits_for_Valley_Fills In-Reply-To: <200205101701.g4AH1Fd08351@zibal.hubris.net> References: <200205101701.g4AH1Fd08351@zibal.hubris.net> Message-ID: >Message: 2 >Reply-To: >From: "Charles M. Niquette" >To: "ACRA ACRA-L (E-mail)" >Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?4th_Circuit:_No_=A7_404_Permits_for_Valley_Fills?= >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:36:53 -0400 > > >For those who might be interested: > >In Kentuckians for the Commonwealth v. Rivenburgh, Chief Judge Charles Haden >has issued a permanent injunction and ruled that Section 404 of the Clean >Water Act does not authorize the Corps to issue permits for waste disposal. > >This effectively prohibits the issuance of permits for valley fills and >refuse impoundments. The complaint alleged that the Corps could not issue >404 permits for waste disposal because the Corps' regulations prohibited it. >That problem was to have been fixed today in a joint rulemaking by the Corps >and EPA. > >By ruling that CWA Section 404 itself prohibits the Corps from authorizing >waste disposal, the 4th Circuit has ruled that the issue cannot be fixed by >today's rulemaking --in fact the court says that any rulemaking that would >authorize waste disposal would be beyond the statutory authority of the >Corps, and is within the sole power of Congress. > >Find a link to an article on the decision at http://www.emlf.org/new.htm or >download the ruling (a PDF file) at >http://www.wvsd.uscourts.gov/opinions/kftcvace.pdf > > >Charles M. Niquette, RPA >President >Cultural Resource Analysts, Inc. >143 Walton Avenue >Lexington, Kentucky 40508 >Voice: (859) 252-4737 >Facsimile: (859) 254-3747 >Web: http://www.crai-ky.com >email: cmniquette@crai-ky.com Chuck Who brought the suit and why? Can we assume that the EPA or some other agency has jurisdiction? -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html From cmniquette@crai-ky.com Fri May 10 13:36:02 2002 From: cmniquette@crai-ky.com (Charles M. Niquette) Date: Fri May 10 12:36:02 2002 Subject: Permits_for_Valley_Fills In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c1f848$77f89c80$0d01a8c0@chuck> Tom: Please take a look at the links I included, especially http://www.wvsd.uscourts.gov/opinions/kftcvace.pdf Charles M. Niquette, RPA President Cultural Resource Analysts, Inc. 143 Walton Avenue Lexington, Kentucky 40508 Voice: (859) 252-4737 Facsimile: (859) 254-3747 Web: http://www.crai-ky.com email: cmniquette@crai-ky.com -----Original Message----- From: acra-l-admin@lists.nonprofit.net [mailto:acra-l-admin@lists.nonprofit.net]On Behalf Of Tom Wheaton Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 1:06 PM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Cc: acra-l-request@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Re: Permits_for_Valley_Fills >Message: 2 >Reply-To: >From: "Charles M. Niquette" >To: "ACRA ACRA-L (E-mail)" >Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?4th_Circuit:_No_=A7_404_Permits_for_Valley_Fills?= >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:36:53 -0400 > > >For those who might be interested: > >In Kentuckians for the Commonwealth v. Rivenburgh, Chief Judge Charles Haden >has issued a permanent injunction and ruled that Section 404 of the Clean >Water Act does not authorize the Corps to issue permits for waste disposal. > >This effectively prohibits the issuance of permits for valley fills and >refuse impoundments. The complaint alleged that the Corps could not issue >404 permits for waste disposal because the Corps' regulations prohibited it. >That problem was to have been fixed today in a joint rulemaking by the Corps >and EPA. > >By ruling that CWA Section 404 itself prohibits the Corps from authorizing >waste disposal, the 4th Circuit has ruled that the issue cannot be fixed by >today's rulemaking --in fact the court says that any rulemaking that would >authorize waste disposal would be beyond the statutory authority of the >Corps, and is within the sole power of Congress. > >Find a link to an article on the decision at http://www.emlf.org/new.htm or >download the ruling (a PDF file) at >http://www.wvsd.uscourts.gov/opinions/kftcvace.pdf > > >Charles M. Niquette, RPA >President >Cultural Resource Analysts, Inc. >143 Walton Avenue >Lexington, Kentucky 40508 >Voice: (859) 252-4737 >Facsimile: (859) 254-3747 >Web: http://www.crai-ky.com >email: cmniquette@crai-ky.com Chuck Who brought the suit and why? Can we assume that the EPA or some other agency has jurisdiction? -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com Mon May 13 12:37:02 2002 From: tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com (Tom Wheaton) Date: Mon May 13 11:37:02 2002 Subject: Fwd: IPA'S EXTINCTION Message-ID: >Reply-To: "IPA Geral" >From: "IPA Geral" >Subject: IPA'S EXTINCTION >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:01:38 +0100 >X-Priority: 3 >To: tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com >X-Loop-Detect: 1 > > >IPA'S "EXTINCTION" > >On May 6th, the Minister of Culture of the newly elected Portuguese >government, publicly confirmed that the independent administration of the >archaeological heritage of Portugal created in 1997 in the wake of the Coa >valley affair - the IPA (Instituto Portugues de Arqueologia) - would cease >to exist as such. > >The IPA has, during its 5 years of existence, (visit www.ipa.min-cultura.pt) >successfully established several centres of study. These include CNANS >(nautical and underwater archaeology), CNART (centre for rock art) and PAVC >(Côa Valley archaeological park). IPA is currently setting up a centre for >archaeological science research - CIPA (human palaeoecology and >archaeological sciences). Besides bringing into effect new laws and >regulations concerning the management and conservation of archaeology in >Portugal, the IPA has become a base for Portugal's younger generation of >archaeologists. > >Instead, the Government is planning to recreate a mega-Institute, lumping >together National Monuments and archaeology. This is a similar structure to >the one that existed before the creation of IPA, which resulted in years of >mismanagement and serious danger for archaeological heritage. This was well >demonstrated by the history of the Côa Valley rock art before the >Archaeological Park was created simultaneously with IPA. > >>From what we have seen in the media the new government does not appear to >have much knowledge about the nature of our work at IPA. We have a wide >framework of intervention, ranging from Cultural Resource Management and >Impact Assessment to Research in Human Palaeoecology and a National Plan for >assisting archaeologists in the area of archaeometry and archaeosciences, of >which only part is known by the recently elected Government. > >A prominent issue is still the fate of the Côa Valley World Heritage Site >(UNESCO 1998), whose classification contemplated the creation of a large >museum, capable of receiving thousands of visitors and able to develop local >infrastructures and private businesses. The museum project has also been >turned down by the government, which seriously threatens the future of the >Archaeological Park. > >For those of you who have worked with us in different research projects, or >are aware of the importance of our work, I would ask you to express your >opinion about the nature of our institute and the need for it. A message of >protest can be sent by faxing +351-21-364-9999 (office of the Minister of >Culture). You can also send an e-mail message to the two Portuguese >newspapers that have always been active in issues related to science and >culture - Público and Expresso. Their addresses are: > >publico@publico.pt >expresso@mail.expresso.pt > >You can also send your comments, as well as any advice you may have, to us >at a special web site at the following address: > >http://www.ipa.min-cultura.pt/forum/forum/ > >Please copy to this forum any messages or letters you send or fax to the >Minister of Culture and the media. -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html From bthompson@pgi-va.com Mon May 13 13:16:02 2002 From: bthompson@pgi-va.com (Brian Thompson) Date: Mon May 13 12:16:02 2002 Subject: databases + GIS Message-ID: <200205131318.AA2408579346@pgi-va.com> I would have to agree that Oracle is indeed the primo database software, especially if we’re talking about managing spatial data. While it is quite expensive, I wouldn’t say that it is hard to use, assuming that you’re using GIS software that interfaces Oracle well. Just because a software company claims that its product is compatible with Oracle doesn’t necessarily imply user-friendly interfacing. In my opinion, a direct Oracle connection is much easier to establish and performs much better than one made through “middleware” such as ArcSDE. Moreover, compatibility with ESRI doesn’t have to be #1 priority when deciding on which database software to use. It may come as a shock to many out there in the cultural resources/ archaeology world, but ESRI isn’t the only maker of GIS software products. Nor are they the best. (Shields Up!!) I have used ArcGIS (ESRI) and GeoMedia Pro (Intergraph Corporation) and my preference is GeoMedia Pro when it comes to data-source compatibility and management. I'm not saying one is handsdown better than the other, but both certainly have their unique strengths. The company I work for manages the GISes for the Military District Washington (MDW) Army installations, and until recently we used Access databases organized according to the Spatial Data Standards (SDS) hierarchy of data classification. We have since migrated to Oracle 8i, but the duration and difficulty of migration was hardly a problem as Bob Bohman indicated. It took about a month; and I should point out that we’re not exactly dealing with tiny amounts of data. We manage any and all data that has a spatial component - -planimetrics, cultural resources, natural resources, facilities, traffic control, etc.. We’re talking monstrous multimedia databases here. It was simply a matter of exporting features in GeoMedia Pro from Access to Oracle. Literally three mouse clicks on my workstation, and a couple lines of code on the Oracle server. Now, instead of making numerous connections to Access databases, I make one connection to Oracle and have instant access to everything-I-ever-wanted-to-know-about my installation of choice. Lastly, the fact that en-vogue databases come and go like flavors of the week shouldn’t be a deterrent to choosing the database you think will best fit your needs. Nowadays migrating data between different structures and formats is really not an issue. Access can import and export to Lotus, Paradox, and dBASE, and from Access, Oracle is just a step away. (My opinions only, not Performance Group's or the Army's.) Brian Thompson GIS Analyst/ Archaeologist Performance Group, Inc. Directorate of Installation Support, GIS Center Ft. Belvoir, VA bthompson@pgi-va.com www.pgi-va.com From Gordon_Tucker@URSCorp.com Mon May 13 15:05:01 2002 From: Gordon_Tucker@URSCorp.com (Gordon_Tucker@URSCorp.com) Date: Mon May 13 14:05:01 2002 Subject: Gordon Tucker/Denver/URSCorp is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 05/13/2002 and will not return until 05/17/2002. I will respond to your message when I return. From BXR@inel.gov Tue May 14 03:02:01 2002 From: BXR@inel.gov (Brenda R Pace/BXR/CC01/INEEL/US) Date: Tue May 14 02:02:01 2002 Subject: Brenda R Pace is in the field. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 05/13/2002 and will not return until 05/21/2002. I am conducting fieldwork this week. Please page me on 5956 and I will call you back. From Gordon_Tucker@URSCorp.com Tue May 14 15:05:02 2002 From: Gordon_Tucker@URSCorp.com (Gordon_Tucker@URSCorp.com) Date: Tue May 14 14:05:02 2002 Subject: Gordon Tucker/Denver/URSCorp is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 05/13/2002 and will not return until 05/17/2002. I will respond to your message when I return. From historicresources@yahoo.com Wed May 15 11:10:01 2002 From: historicresources@yahoo.com (Cultural Resource Management) Date: Wed May 15 10:10:01 2002 Subject: CRM Firm Seeks Partnering Message-ID: <20020515150931.44740.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com> --0-1357106219-1021475371=:43131 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We are a CRM firm located in the Los Angeles County area. We have a full staff of historians, architects, and architectural historians. We are seeking to work with larger firms who require research on various projects. Our staff has excellent educational backgrounds which include the University of Chicago, UCLA, and the Claremont Graduate University. Our staff has over 15 years of prior experience in providing historic architecture consulting, and historical research. A brief listing of our projects include historic resource surveys for the City of San Fernando, CA; the City of Arcadia, historic evalutions for Remington Elementary School, William Reed Homes, and the Stone House. Our firm is certified by the State of California as a Small Business and is in the process of being evaluated for designation as a Disadvantaged Business Enterprise. We are a Minority Business Enterprise. Please contact Amy Donnelly, Director of Historic Research for information on how we can be of service to your firm. Thank you, Wendel Vernon Eckford, ABDPrincipal Tel: (909) 622-6636Fax: (909) 622-6156 --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience --0-1357106219-1021475371=:43131 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

We are a CRM firm located in the Los Angeles County area.  We have a full staff of historians, architects, and architectural historians.  We are seeking to work with larger firms who require research on various projects.  Our staff has excellent educational backgrounds which include the University of Chicago, UCLA, and the Claremont Graduate University.  Our staff has over 15 years of prior experience in providing historic architecture consulting, and historical research.  A brief listing of our projects include historic resource surveys for the City of San Fernando, CA; the City of Arcadia, historic evalutions for Remington Elementary School, William Reed Homes, and the Stone House. 

Our firm is certified by the State of California as a Small Business and is in the process of being evaluated for designation as a Disadvantaged Business Enterprise. We are a Minority Business Enterprise.  

Please contact Amy Donnelly, Director of Historic Research for information on how we can be of service to your firm. 

Thank you,

Wendel Vernon Eckford, ABD
Principal
Tel: (909) 622-6636
Fax: (909) 622-6156


Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience --0-1357106219-1021475371=:43131-- From TFKing106@aol.com Sun May 19 09:47:02 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Sun May 19 08:47:02 2002 Subject: Just suppose... Message-ID: I'd like to pick the collective brains of ACRA-L about a not-entirely-hypothetical situation. Suppose an SHPO came to you and said that he or she was sick and tired of seeing good money wasted in his or her state on bad archeology, usually addressing silly research topics at dumb sites, and asked you what he or she ought to do about it? What would you suggest? Before you answer, let me add some parameters to consider. 1. If you say "don't determine dumb sites eligible for the National Register," you've got to figure out how to decide whether a site is dumb or not, without spending a lot of unnecessary time and money on the determination process. 2. If you say "can the redundant sites," you've got to have a way of figuring out what's redundant, and what to do about legitimate research questions that REQUIRE the study of lots and lots of the same kinds of sites. 3. If you say "make judgments within historic contexts," you've got to figure out how to resist the inevitable tendency of context-based evaluation toward the elevation of the trivial (If something elucidates a context, or fills a data gap, it's good, even if there's no earthly utility in such eludication or gap filling). 4. Whatever you recommend, you've got to figure out a mechanism for making it happen within the real-world context of project review under Section 106, NEPA, pertinent state laws, etc. etc., and in the context of the SHPO-NPS relationship. I don't ask this in order to get you to do my work for me (I don't really have the work to do anyhow, yet), but in the interests of getting multiple good brains working on what I think is a real problem that we all would do well to think about. Thanks for your responses, which can be off-list if you like (tfking106@aol.com), but would be more interesting on-list so people can discuss them. Tom King From saustin@sydcom.net Sun May 19 10:14:01 2002 From: saustin@sydcom.net (Stephen P. Austin) Date: Sun May 19 09:14:01 2002 Subject: Just suppose... References: Message-ID: <000d01c1ff3f$4eaa7120$901860cc@oemcomputer> As a first adjustment to the discussion - I would suggest it be broadened to include any NRHP property, not just "archeological." Stephen P. Austin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 8:46 AM Subject: Just suppose... > I'd like to pick the collective brains of ACRA-L about a > not-entirely-hypothetical situation. > > Suppose an SHPO came to you and said that he or she was sick and tired of > seeing good money wasted in his or her state on bad archeology, usually > addressing silly research topics at dumb sites, and asked you what he or she > ought to do about it? What would you suggest? > > Before you answer, let me add some parameters to consider. > > 1. If you say "don't determine dumb sites eligible for the National > Register," you've got to figure out how to decide whether a site is dumb or > not, without spending a lot of unnecessary time and money on the > determination process. > > 2. If you say "can the redundant sites," you've got to have a way of figuring > out what's redundant, and what to do about legitimate research questions that > REQUIRE the study of lots and lots of the same kinds of sites. > > 3. If you say "make judgments within historic contexts," you've got to figure > out how to resist the inevitable tendency of context-based evaluation toward > the elevation of the trivial (If something elucidates a context, or fills a > data gap, it's good, even if there's no earthly utility in such eludication > or gap filling). > > 4. Whatever you recommend, you've got to figure out a mechanism for making it > happen within the real-world context of project review under Section 106, > NEPA, pertinent state laws, etc. etc., and in the context of the SHPO-NPS > relationship. > > I don't ask this in order to get you to do my work for me (I don't really > have the work to do anyhow, yet), but in the interests of getting multiple > good brains working on what I think is a real problem that we all would do > well to think about. > > Thanks for your responses, which can be off-list if you like > (tfking106@aol.com), but would be more interesting on-list so people can > discuss them. > > Tom King > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l > From TFKing106@aol.com Sun May 19 13:05:01 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Sun May 19 12:05:01 2002 Subject: Just suppose... Message-ID: <151.e1d2809.2a19352a@aol.com> Steve Austin suggests: As a first adjustment to the discussion - I would suggest it be broadened to include any NRHP property, not just "archeological." Well, that would be an adjustment, all right, but that's not what the "client" is looking to have investigated, and I do think that the problem of funding dumb archeology is pretty easily separable from that of funding other kinds of dumb stuff under the rubric of historic preservation. TKing From jjs@in-tch.com Sun May 19 13:09:02 2002 From: jjs@in-tch.com (James J. Shive) Date: Sun May 19 12:09:02 2002 Subject: Just suppose... References: Message-ID: <3CE7DB2F.2D96@in-tch.com> For all the potential pitfalls, including "elevation of the trivial"--I'd still vote for # 3 here-- "make judgments within historic contexts," if that means in the framework of at least the archaeological components of a State Historic Preservation Plan (SHPP). This assumes that the SHPO has developed such a plan. It assumes that the contexts and register qualities of specific types of archaeological properties are defined, as least by the guidance offered in the SOI Standards and NRHP Bulletin system. It also assumes that the SHPO, providing the leadership and guidance needed, has developed the SHPP goals and objectives for archaeological conservation, in consultation with the archaeological community, as well as any number of other potentially interested parties, both public and private. Implementation of this process, should address as well, the "context of the SHPO-NPS relationship." As regards #4--SHPO application of the SHPP contexts, goals and objectives, in the context of actual projects submitted for review and comment, should be the foundation of the "mechanism for making it happen within the real-world context of project review under Section 106, NEPA, pertinent state laws, etc. etc." Hopefully, this would provide a basis on which all, or at least a majority of the interested parties to a specific action would understand. This is not meant to suggest SHPO reviews would exclude contexts which may be developed outside the SHPP process, since no such plan is likely to consider everything that may be worthy of consideration. Jim Shive TFKing106@aol.com wrote: > 3. If you say "make judgments within historic contexts," you've got to figure out how to resist the inevitable tendency of context-based evaluation toward the elevation of the trivial (If something elucidates a context, or fills a data gap, it's good, even if there's no earthly utility in such eludication or gap filling). > > 4. Whatever you recommend, you've got to figure out a mechanism for making it happen within the real-world context of project review under Section 106, NEPA, pertinent state laws, etc. etc., and in the context of the SHPO-NPS relationship. > From avarchaeology@yahoo.com Sun May 19 14:19:02 2002 From: avarchaeology@yahoo.com (Mark Campbell) Date: Sun May 19 13:19:02 2002 Subject: Just suppose... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020519181804.10247.qmail@web12507.mail.yahoo.com> Based upon many of the reports I read for Southern California in general and the Western Mojave Desert specificly I have to point out some assumptions I see being made by many archaeologists. 1. The surface is an accurate indicator of what is subsurface. 2. We know all we can know about site type X. 3. I can tell something is redundant without examining it. 4. I can write off anything I want because SHPO only reads reports that find sites eligible. 5. I don't have to know anything about a region to evaluate sites. 6. MY job is to prepare documents which clear the project not learn anything from the resources. 7. Sites are either redundant or idiosyncratic, neither of which are eligible. Now for some things I don't understand about "good archaeology".How do you recognize trends and patterns without redundancy? How do you evaluate something without looking at it? Why does an advanced degree excuse a lack of thoroughness? How can someone who has never worked in a region decide what questions are important in that region? How can you characterize a site with a sample that is less than 0.00001%? How can you adequately evaluate a site that is over 10,000 square meters with a single 50 x 50 centimeter test pit? How do research designs "addressing silly research topics at dumb sites" get approved by SHPO? Most 106 and 110 projects I have worked on follow a research design that has undergone SHPO review and approval. The real question seems to be "how can we identify sites that we can eliminate without examining them?" --- TFKing106@aol.com wrote: > Suppose an SHPO came to you and said that he or she > was sick and tired of > seeing good money wasted in his or her state on bad > archeology, usually > addressing silly research topics at dumb sites, and > asked you what he or she > ought to do about it? What would you suggest? > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From SHeberling@compuserve.com Mon May 20 08:06:02 2002 From: SHeberling@compuserve.com (Scott D Heberling) Date: Mon May 20 07:06:02 2002 Subject: Architectural Historian position Message-ID: <200205200803_MC3-FE90-7454@compuserve.com> Employment Opportunity, Architectural Historian Heberling Associates, Inc. is seeking a qualified, self-motivated individual to assist on architectural history projects in Pennsylvania and adjacent states. This is a full-time salaried position in our Huntingdon, PA office. The applicant will work under the guidance and supervision of our senior staff. The ideal applicant will: 1) meet the Secretary of the Interior's professional qualifications standards for architectural history; 2) be well-versed in the Section 106 process; 3) have excellent organizational, research, and writing skills; 4) be familiar with the history and architecture of the Middle Atlantic region; 5) be able to complete projects in a timely manner and within established budgets; and 6) have a high degree of professional commitment and integrity. Applicant should have a degree in architectural history or closely related field and some experience in completing architectural field surveys and documentation. The ability to work independently is critical. Project assignments may include historic structures inventories and evaluations; historic context development; HABS/HAER documentation; MOA and PA preparation; and National Register nominations. Projects will require travel and occasional overnight stays. Knowledge of technological/industrial history and historic bridges is a definite plus. Heberling Associates, Inc. is a small full service CRM firm based in scenic central Pennsylvania. Our professional staff of twelve archaeologists, architectural historians, and historians is supplemented by twenty field technicians and other support staff. We offer applicants an opportunity to join a growing team of professionals in a pleasant and flexible working environment. Fringe benefits include participation in the company's medical and retirement plans. Starting Salary: $25,000-$30,000, based on qualifications. All qualified and interested individuals are encouraged to submit resumes to Scott D. Heberling, President, Heberling Associates, Inc., 415 Mifflin Street, Huntingdon, PA 16652. No telephone responses please. FAX (814) 643-3014 or e-mail: SHeberling@compuserve.com. Heberling Associates is an equal opportunity employer. From ATONETTI@ascgroup.net Mon May 20 09:01:02 2002 From: ATONETTI@ascgroup.net (Al Tonetti) Date: Mon May 20 08:01:02 2002 Subject: Just suppose... Message-ID: <738319161C6CD31185EE00A0C9FB142A15EF22@ASCSRV> I agree with Jim Shive's comments, but would add the following: I'd want a better explanation from the SHPO concerning what he/she means by "bad archaeology." Can he/she give me some examples? I'd also ask whether the SHPO is an archaeologist by training (it could affect his/her perception of the matter), and whether it was the SHPO who feels this way, his archaeology staff who feels this way, and/or whether this was the feeling of some state legislators and/or the Governor. I'd also want to know whether this concern was Section 106 related or whether this concern also pertains to a state counterpart regulation. Basically, I'd want all this information so that I can place my reply in the context of how the concern was developed and expressed. I'd ask if the SHPO has completed and regularly (at least yearly) updated a state archaeological preservation plan that should address the issue of what's important information, what's redundant information, etc., and whether the participants in the review process are using the state plan in a reasonable manner. If the SHPO hasn't completed such a plan, I'd recommend that he/she convene a meeting of stakeholders to do so. If the SHPO has completed a plan, I'd recommend convening a meeting with relevant agencies and archaeologists to discuss the matter. I'd recommend that the SHPO discuss the matter with other SHPOs to see if this is a perceived or real problem at a regional or national scale, perhaps using NCSHPO as a forum to do so. Al Tonetti -----Original Message----- From: TFKing106@aol.com [mailto:TFKing106@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 9:46 AM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Just suppose... I'd like to pick the collective brains of ACRA-L about a not-entirely-hypothetical situation. Suppose an SHPO came to you and said that he or she was sick and tired of seeing good money wasted in his or her state on bad archeology, usually addressing silly research topics at dumb sites, and asked you what he or she ought to do about it? What would you suggest? Before you answer, let me add some parameters to consider. 1. If you say "don't determine dumb sites eligible for the National Register," you've got to figure out how to decide whether a site is dumb or not, without spending a lot of unnecessary time and money on the determination process. 2. If you say "can the redundant sites," you've got to have a way of figuring out what's redundant, and what to do about legitimate research questions that REQUIRE the study of lots and lots of the same kinds of sites. 3. If you say "make judgments within historic contexts," you've got to figure out how to resist the inevitable tendency of context-based evaluation toward the elevation of the trivial (If something elucidates a context, or fills a data gap, it's good, even if there's no earthly utility in such eludication or gap filling). 4. Whatever you recommend, you've got to figure out a mechanism for making it happen within the real-world context of project review under Section 106, NEPA, pertinent state laws, etc. etc., and in the context of the SHPO-NPS relationship. I don't ask this in order to get you to do my work for me (I don't really have the work to do anyhow, yet), but in the interests of getting multiple good brains working on what I think is a real problem that we all would do well to think about. Thanks for your responses, which can be off-list if you like (tfking106@aol.com), but would be more interesting on-list so people can discuss them. Tom King _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From TFKing106@aol.com Mon May 20 09:11:02 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Mon May 20 08:11:02 2002 Subject: Just suppose... Message-ID: <2b.276495b2.2a1a4fab@aol.com> My, my -- seems like an awful lot of defensiveness in responses thus far to my inquiry. Odd; I thought of it as an interesting opportunity to perhaps improve the quality of research done as a result of 106, regardless of whether what's currently being done is particularly "bad." I'm particularly intrigued by the reactions that seem to "blame it on the SHPO." Like "how come crummy research is getting past the SHPO's reviewers?" I didn't realize that omniscience in the judgment of research quality was among the elements in the SHPO's job description. Maybe some SHPOs think it is, but others, in my experience, are a bit more humble. Tom King From NKENMOT@dot.state.tx.us Mon May 20 09:27:02 2002 From: NKENMOT@dot.state.tx.us (Nancy Kenmotsu) Date: Mon May 20 08:27:02 2002 Subject: Just suppose... Message-ID: Tom, As a former SHPO staff member and now, as manager of the state's DOT archeology, your supposition is close to how I felt at some moments in reviewing reports. I suspect that others have felt the same from time to time. This happens when we see "dig and figure" being done. That is, we are "certain" that this is a good site, certain that if we just dig enough of it, analysze enough of it, etc., that we will be able to figure out something from all the data. Spaulding spoke out on this subject years ago when he argued against Phillips work. At a DOT symposium in Seattle's SAA, I presented a paper I and my staff developed that represents our response to the issue. It is entitled, What To Do When You Can't Do Everything. I will send it to you off line. It is not the only answer to the issue, but it was and is ours. I am sure that many other fine minds on this list will offer other interesting responses. Regards, Nancy A. Kenmotsu, Ph.D. Supervisor, Archeological Studies TxDOT 125 E. 11th St. Austin, TX 78701 512/416-2631 From Mike.Carmody@VirginiaDOT.org Mon May 20 09:34:01 2002 From: Mike.Carmody@VirginiaDOT.org (Carmody, Michael L.) Date: Mon May 20 08:34:01 2002 Subject: Just suppose... Message-ID: As this SHPO sounds overworked and under funded (surprise, surprise) I would probably first talk to them about putting together Programmatic Agreements with some of the larger Agencies in the state (such as the DOT) that might ease up their work load a bit. If written well this should free them of some busy work and allow them to focus on what the archaeological priorities in the state need to be. As Al points out, they need to be able to define what "bad archaeology" is and then try to work towards a state archaeological preservation plan that addresses their priorities. Of course, they need to find the time to do this first. Programmatic Agreements could allow Agencies with thorough internal review processes to submit only management summaries for project that do not locate any sites, significantly reducing time spent on report review for areas without significant cultural resources. The PA could also address project types that do not have the potential to effect cultural resources and thus do not need to be coordinated with the SHPO - things like routine maintenance projects that do not extend beyond the existing footprint of the development. My thoughts not VDOTS. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Al Tonetti [mailto:ATONETTI@ascgroup.net] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:04 AM To: 'TFKing106@aol.com'; acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: RE: Just suppose... I agree with Jim Shive's comments, but would add the following: I'd want a better explanation from the SHPO concerning what he/she means by "bad archaeology." Can he/she give me some examples? I'd also ask whether the SHPO is an archaeologist by training (it could affect his/her perception of the matter), and whether it was the SHPO who feels this way, his archaeology staff who feels this way, and/or whether this was the feeling of some state legislators and/or the Governor. I'd also want to know whether this concern was Section 106 related or whether this concern also pertains to a state counterpart regulation. Basically, I'd want all this information so that I can place my reply in the context of how the concern was developed and expressed. I'd ask if the SHPO has completed and regularly (at least yearly) updated a state archaeological preservation plan that should address the issue of what's important information, what's redundant information, etc., and whether the participants in the review process are using the state plan in a reasonable manner. If the SHPO hasn't completed such a plan, I'd recommend that he/she convene a meeting of stakeholders to do so. If the SHPO has completed a plan, I'd recommend convening a meeting with relevant agencies and archaeologists to discuss the matter. I'd recommend that the SHPO discuss the matter with other SHPOs to see if this is a perceived or real problem at a regional or national scale, perhaps using NCSHPO as a forum to do so. Al Tonetti -----Original Message----- From: TFKing106@aol.com [mailto:TFKing106@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 9:46 AM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Just suppose... I'd like to pick the collective brains of ACRA-L about a not-entirely-hypothetical situation. Suppose an SHPO came to you and said that he or she was sick and tired of seeing good money wasted in his or her state on bad archeology, usually addressing silly research topics at dumb sites, and asked you what he or she ought to do about it? What would you suggest? Before you answer, let me add some parameters to consider. 1. If you say "don't determine dumb sites eligible for the National Register," you've got to figure out how to decide whether a site is dumb or not, without spending a lot of unnecessary time and money on the determination process. 2. If you say "can the redundant sites," you've got to have a way of figuring out what's redundant, and what to do about legitimate research questions that REQUIRE the study of lots and lots of the same kinds of sites. 3. If you say "make judgments within historic contexts," you've got to figure out how to resist the inevitable tendency of context-based evaluation toward the elevation of the trivial (If something elucidates a context, or fills a data gap, it's good, even if there's no earthly utility in such eludication or gap filling). 4. Whatever you recommend, you've got to figure out a mechanism for making it happen within the real-world context of project review under Section 106, NEPA, pertinent state laws, etc. etc., and in the context of the SHPO-NPS relationship. I don't ask this in order to get you to do my work for me (I don't really have the work to do anyhow, yet), but in the interests of getting multiple good brains working on what I think is a real problem that we all would do well to think about. Thanks for your responses, which can be off-list if you like (tfking106@aol.com), but would be more interesting on-list so people can discuss them. Tom King _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From cmniquette@crai-ky.com Mon May 20 09:38:01 2002 From: cmniquette@crai-ky.com (Charles M. Niquette) Date: Mon May 20 08:38:01 2002 Subject: Just suppose... In-Reply-To: <2b.276495b2.2a1a4fab@aol.com> Message-ID: <002901c20002$d1d7a360$0d01a8c0@chuck> For what it is worth, I think Al's response was right on the money. Charles M. Niquette, RPA President Cultural Resource Analysts, Inc. 143 Walton Avenue Lexington, Kentucky 40508 Voice: (859) 252-4737 Facsimile: (859) 254-3747 Web: http://www.crai-ky.com email: cmniquette@crai-ky.com -----Original Message----- From: acra-l-admin@lists.nonprofit.net [mailto:acra-l-admin@lists.nonprofit.net]On Behalf Of TFKing106@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:10 AM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Re: Just suppose... My, my -- seems like an awful lot of defensiveness in responses thus far to my inquiry. Odd; I thought of it as an interesting opportunity to perhaps improve the quality of research done as a result of 106, regardless of whether what's currently being done is particularly "bad." I'm particularly intrigued by the reactions that seem to "blame it on the SHPO." Like "how come crummy research is getting past the SHPO's reviewers?" I didn't realize that omniscience in the judgment of research quality was among the elements in the SHPO's job description. Maybe some SHPOs think it is, but others, in my experience, are a bit more humble. Tom King _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From Douglas.Mackey@oprhp.state.ny.us Mon May 20 09:57:02 2002 From: Douglas.Mackey@oprhp.state.ny.us (Mackey, Douglas (PEB)) Date: Mon May 20 08:57:02 2002 Subject: Just suppose... Message-ID: All Tonetti asks: ,<'d want a better explanation from the SHPO concerning what he/she means by "bad archaeology." Can he/she give me some examples? > See Mark Campbell's response - I find myself reviewing many of the same "issues" Al also asked Ideally, regularly updating a plan would be a great idea, unfortunately, most SHPOs I know are understaffed and are doing the best they can just to meet the review deadlines. Updating anything is often a lower priority (though it probably should not be) due to the mandated deadlines of the review period. Also, several folks seem to think that the SHPOs should provide absolute guidance on what is important. Who made us the all knowings? My job is in part to review work done by professional archaeologists who supposedly keep up on current themes in new research, methodologies, techniques, and who also have the ability to think for themselves and look for new approaches and questions to be asked. While I am happy to act as a conduit for exchanging ideas between others, I am not doing the original research in the field that will ask and address these new questions. Nor do I think that any one office should determine what is not important. If any researcher identifies new possibilities or potential avenues of research, it is not a SHPOs place to say no. On the other hand, if a SHPO has seen an avenue for new research and it is not picked up on by archaeologists in the field, they may not concur with a No potential for research recommendation and point out the new direction. Be careful to understand that distinction. In the end it comes down to -Did the consultant do some real research, give the SHPO something worth reading and really try to do some scientific investigation, or did they just count flakes and pot sherds, and leave any original thought to someone to come along later. In the case of real research, it is often much easier to make an informed decisions, either as eligible or not, because you have real data to work with. In the case of "counters" how is a SHPO supposed to know whether a site has any potential without analysis. Did those few flakes exhibit some significant edge wear patterning, do the sherds contain shell tempering in an area where shell has never been identified as being used before? How does this small site fit into the overall settlement pattern? ..... I could go on but I hope these will suffice to illustrate the situation. While this may not address Tom's original question, these issues are ones that SHPOs deal with on a daily basis and seeing some of the early responses, I thought I could provide a different perspective. I look forward to seeing the responses of others. Doug -----Original Message----- From: Al Tonetti [mailto:ATONETTI@ascgroup.net] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:04 AM To: 'TFKing106@aol.com'; acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: RE: Just suppose... I agree with Jim Shive's comments, but would add the following: I'd want a better explanation from the SHPO concerning what he/she means by "bad archaeology." Can he/she give me some examples? I'd also ask whether the SHPO is an archaeologist by training (it could affect his/her perception of the matter), and whether it was the SHPO who feels this way, his archaeology staff who feels this way, and/or whether this was the feeling of some state legislators and/or the Governor. I'd also want to know whether this concern was Section 106 related or whether this concern also pertains to a state counterpart regulation. Basically, I'd want all this information so that I can place my reply in the context of how the concern was developed and expressed. I'd ask if the SHPO has completed and regularly (at least yearly) updated a state archaeological preservation plan that should address the issue of what's important information, what's redundant information, etc., and whether the participants in the review process are using the state plan in a reasonable manner. If the SHPO hasn't completed such a plan, I'd recommend that he/she convene a meeting of stakeholders to do so. If the SHPO has completed a plan, I'd recommend convening a meeting with relevant agencies and archaeologists to discuss the matter. I'd recommend that the SHPO discuss the matter with other SHPOs to see if this is a perceived or real problem at a regional or national scale, perhaps using NCSHPO as a forum to do so. Al Tonetti -----Original Message----- From: TFKing106@aol.com [mailto:TFKing106@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 9:46 AM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Just suppose... I'd like to pick the collective brains of ACRA-L about a not-entirely-hypothetical situation. Suppose an SHPO came to you and said that he or she was sick and tired of seeing good money wasted in his or her state on bad archeology, usually addressing silly research topics at dumb sites, and asked you what he or she ought to do about it? What would you suggest? Before you answer, let me add some parameters to consider. 1. If you say "don't determine dumb sites eligible for the National Register," you've got to figure out how to decide whether a site is dumb or not, without spending a lot of unnecessary time and money on the determination process. 2. If you say "can the redundant sites," you've got to have a way of figuring out what's redundant, and what to do about legitimate research questions that REQUIRE the study of lots and lots of the same kinds of sites. 3. If you say "make judgments within historic contexts," you've got to figure out how to resist the inevitable tendency of context-based evaluation toward the elevation of the trivial (If something elucidates a context, or fills a data gap, it's good, even if there's no earthly utility in such eludication or gap filling). 4. Whatever you recommend, you've got to figure out a mechanism for making it happen within the real-world context of project review under Section 106, NEPA, pertinent state laws, etc. etc., and in the context of the SHPO-NPS relationship. I don't ask this in order to get you to do my work for me (I don't really have the work to do anyhow, yet), but in the interests of getting multiple good brains working on what I think is a real problem that we all would do well to think about. Thanks for your responses, which can be off-list if you like (tfking106@aol.com), but would be more interesting on-list so people can discuss them. Tom King _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From ATONETTI@ascgroup.net Mon May 20 12:05:02 2002 From: ATONETTI@ascgroup.net (Al Tonetti) Date: Mon May 20 11:05:02 2002 Subject: Just suppose... Message-ID: <738319161C6CD31185EE00A0C9FB142A15EF23@ASCSRV> Doug Mackey said "Ideally, regularly updating a plan would be a great idea, unfortunately, most SHPOs I know are understaffed and are doing the best they can just to meet the review deadlines. Updating anything is often a lower priority (though it probably should not be) due to the mandated deadlines of the review period." Having worked in a SHPO for 15 years I know that the workload is often heavy, the rewards often few, the bureaucracy often stifling, and the funds often lacking. That is why SHPOs need to develop and maintain partnerships and working relationships with other agencies, the professional archaeological community, and even the industries they assist in regulating so that when the SHPO doesn't have the time, funds, etc. to do what needs to be done, they can work with other stakeholders in finding some way to get the job done. Doug also stated that "...several folks seem to think that the SHPOs should provide absolute guidance on what is important. Who made us the all knowing?" This is also a matter that is best addressed by involving the stakeholders in the process. Al Tonetti From tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com Mon May 20 15:44:02 2002 From: tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com (Tom Wheaton) Date: Mon May 20 14:44:02 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #117 - 11 msgs In-Reply-To: <200205201701.g4KH17d07660@zibal.hubris.net> References: <200205201701.g4KH17d07660@zibal.hubris.net> Message-ID: Folks Please, please learn how to use your e-mail programs. Please learn how NOT to send every message in a thread when you respond. Only keep enough of the thread so people know what you are referring to. Think before you send. Thanks for saving the bandwidth and my delete button. -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html From TFKing106@aol.com Mon May 20 17:04:01 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Mon May 20 16:04:01 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #117 - 11 msgs Message-ID: Tom -- Please learn to use English in your communications. Between your content-free subject line and the obscure body of your message, I have no earthly idea what you're talking about. I'm sure I speak for all of us techno-incompetents when I say that if we're erring in our use of the internet we'd be happy to be instructed in how to improve, but it doesn't help to launch nastygrams at people who don't understand your language. Tom King From tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com Tue May 21 10:39:02 2002 From: tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com (Tom Wheaton) Date: Tue May 21 09:39:02 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #117 - 11 msgs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 5:03 PM -0400 5/20/02, TFKing106@aol.com wrote: >Tom -- Please learn to use English in your communications. Between your >content-free subject line and the obscure body of your message, I have no >earthly idea what you're talking about. I'm sure I speak for all of us >techno-incompetents when I say that if we're erring in our use of the >internet we'd be happy to be instructed in how to improve, but it doesn't >help to launch nastygrams at people who don't understand your language. > >Tom King This has been addressed for over seven years now. During the initial years of the list many people were just learning about e-mail and e-mail lists, and I explained, patiently I hope, how people should not send all of the previous messages in a thread when they reply to the list. A thread is like a topic or thread in a conversation. Some people continue to send the original message, the initial reply to that message, the reply to the reply, ad infinitum, when they reply to the list. This makes messages many times longer than necessary which takes up time and money for the rest of us, and is especially difficult for people who still have to hook up to the internet by long distance or by the minute. The messages in the thread can and do get out of order as different e-mail programs treat replies differently, thereby confusing things even more. Thus, to send to the list the entire thread or chain of messages on a topic is inconsiderate of people who get charged for the added message lengths, and it becomes confusing as readers try to figure out where the real message begins and what is being replied to. Please only copy a small portion (snippet?) of the message you are replying to when you send something to the list. Just send enough so that people know what you are referring to. Please do not send the entire thread of messages leading up to the one you are sending. On many lists, people have been kicked off for continuing this practice. I think we have been pretty forebearing in this regard, but I would like people to think of others and what they are doing when they do this sort of thing. Since I do not know exactly how people's e-mail programs work, I cannot tell you exactly what each person should do to copy the snippet you wish to reply to, and to eliminate the rest of the thread. But there are general things that all e-mail programs should have, things such as buttons to reply to all, to send copies, to send blind copies, to delete messages, to cut and paste, to select the text one is replying to, etc. Please take a few minutes and learn how yours works. -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html From histarch@televar.com Tue May 21 10:55:01 2002 From: histarch@televar.com (History/Archaeology) Date: Tue May 21 09:55:01 2002 Subject: Position Announcements References: Message-ID: <001201c200d6$9482da00$55e21ad0@histarch> Folks all, Please consider the following two positions, open for guaranteed consideration only until May 22nd (I know, whew!), with the History/Archaeology Department, Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation: 1) Archaeologist - Project Director: $26.40 - $29.11 P/H, depending on qualifications. 2) Technical Archaelogist II: $40,955.20 - $47,424.00 Annually, depending on qualifications. Links to position announcements and requirements are available at www.colvilletribes.com/jobs.htm A Technical Archaeologist I position also is open but no longer listed on the website. Inquiries to the Personnel Dept. or the Tribal Archaeologist (509-634-2691) can provide information on that position. Thank you, Brent Hicks Project Archaeologist From bathurst@interlynx.net Tue May 21 13:43:02 2002 From: bathurst@interlynx.net (J&R Bathurst) Date: Tue May 21 12:43:02 2002 Subject: obit: Stephen Jay Gould Message-ID: <004901c200ef$0447e700$9a11b7d1@bathurst> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C200CD.7CB927C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought this may be of interest to those on the list. Rhonda R. Bathurst, doctoral candidate McMaster University Archaeology bathurst@interlynx.net=20 <*)))>< ><)))*> <*)))>< ><)))*> Stephen Jay Gould, Evolution Theorist, Dies at 60 May 21, 2002 By CAROL KAESUK YOON=20 Stephen Jay Gould, one of the most influential evolutionary biologists of the 20th century who helped to reinvigorate the field of paleontology, died on Monday in Manhattan. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/21/obituaries/21GOUL.html? ex=3D1022989865&ei=3D1&en=3D3dd370591ee86bf2 ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C200CD.7CB927C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thought this may be of interest to = those on the=20 list.
 
Rhonda R. Bathurst, doctoral = candidate
McMaster=20 University
Archaeology
bathurst@interlynx.net=20
<*)))><    = ><)))*>   =20 <*)))><    ><)))*>
 
 
 
Stephen Jay=20 Gould, Evolution Theorist, Dies at 60

May 21, 2002
By CAROL = KAESUK=20 YOON




Stephen Jay Gould, one of the most influential=20 evolutionary
biologists of the 20th century who helped to = reinvigorate
the=20 field of paleontology, died on Monday in Manhattan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/21/obituaries/21GOUL.html<= /A>?
ex=3D1022989865&ei=3D1&en=3D3dd370591ee86bf2=
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C200CD.7CB927C0-- From tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com Tue May 21 16:57:01 2002 From: tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com (Tom Wheaton) Date: Tue May 21 15:57:01 2002 Subject: Lee Pye Saga Continues Message-ID: This just in from the National Trust for those of you following the Lee Pye case in South Carolina. Lee and her husband are not finished, as other law suits are pending, one against them; and the Corps still needs to be convinced that the sites are worth protecting; but at least the Corps must now acknowledge that 106 needs to be done. Happily, the Sanders ruling (only the exact footprint of a project needs to be examined) has also taken a hit. >Lee Pye v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, >269 F.3d 459 (4th Cir. Oct. 22, 2001) > >Status: Case Won > >Live oaks, archaeological sites, and historic ruins still remain on >lands that once comprised the Hayne Plantation in South Carolina. >(NTHP) > > >More than two years after oral argument, the U.S. Court of Appeals >for the Fourth Circuit issued a ruling worth waiting for, on October >22, 2001, in an important case involving the "standing" of >interested parties to enforce Section 106 of the National Historic >Preservation Act. The court ruled that adjacent property owners >clearly had standing to sue the Army Corps of Engineers for >violating Section 106 by issuing a wetlands permit to Charleston >County, South Carolina, for the widening and upgrading of a road on >portions of an 18th-century plantation. The Trust had filed an >amicus brief, and had participated in oral argument, advocating the >conclusion that the court ultimately reached. >The upgraded road leads to a field with significant historic >resources, including an African-American cemetery eligible for the >National Register, and the remains of a plantation home owned by the >family of Robert Young Hayne, the U.S. Senator from South Carolina >who debated Daniel Webster in 1830 over the issue of whether >southern states could nullify federal laws. The Army Corps refused >to consider the potential effects of the permit on these known >historic sites, such as the increased risk of vandalism or >accidental damage by the county's heavy vehicles, because the sites >are located outside the physical boundaries of the road surface. >The court of appeals recognized that the county's road improvement >project "may lead to trespassing, vandalism, and looting of historic >sites," and vacated a lower court decision denying the plaintiffs' >standing to challenge the Corps permit. The court was especially >clear that the Army Corps should not overlook the potential for >serious adverse effects, simply because the area of wetlands filled >for the road was small (less than an acre). "While at first blush >the project here may appear to be trivial," the court warned, "the >smallest of endeavors can have enormous consequences if undertaken >improvidently. We caution the district court not to yield to the >temptation of necessarily equating the size of the government's >action with its potential for injury." In response to the court >ruling, the Army Corps has agreed to review the permit under Section >106. > >The Trust's amicus brief, filed December 8, 1998, was joined by the >Society for Historical Archaeology and the American Cultural >Resources Association. The Trust was represented pro bono at oral >argument by Cornish F. Hitchcock, Washington, D.C. > -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html From glyph@hotmail.com Tue May 21 17:10:02 2002 From: glyph@hotmail.com (b glyph) Date: Tue May 21 16:10:02 2002 Subject: Tom's Request Message-ID: Howdie Folks, First, thank you Tom Wheaton for your post, and for trying to save our money, patience, and interest. Second - apologies to those who felt Tom's post was nasty. I did not read it that way myself. I was just very grateful that he would risk name-calling (again) to try to put an end to a very bad List Practice. Third: for those who did not understand, Tom's Subject line read: >Subject: Re: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #117 - 11 msgs because he was writing specifically about Vol 1 #117. This Volume was particularly irritatingly plagued with posts that included the full message from earlier Volumes. And for the most part it was the same full message repeated ad nauseam. It does not take much techno-wizardry to use the mouse, to highlight, and then to delete text before sending replies to the list. This practice is downright required, and accomplished with regularity on most lists I have seen. That is what Tom was asking people to do. He said in a second post: >Please only copy a small portion (snippet?) of the message you are >replying to when you send something to the list. Just send enough so >that people know what you are referring to. Please do not send the >entire thread of messages leading up to the one you are sending. > >On many lists, people have been kicked off for continuing this >practice. I think we have been pretty forebearing in this regard, but >I would like people to think of others and what they are doing when >they do this sort of thing. As the list owner, Tom Wheaton actually has been much more forebearing and permissive than other listowners about asking for a practice that is considered simple list courtesy. We all want to make the best use of our short time on this planet. Please see Tom's request as serving to help reach that goal. Cheers, B. Parker _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From TFKing106@aol.com Tue May 21 17:45:01 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Tue May 21 16:45:01 2002 Subject: Tom's Request Message-ID: <179.8a2caa5.2a1c199e@aol.com> What I found irritating was not the request, but its utterly obscure character. Since I don't get the digest, the title line was meaningless to me; hence I couldn't figure out whether Tom's angst was directed at me or not. If I had erred I naturally wanted to fix it, but the message was such that I couldn't figure out whether I HAD erred. I had the choice of doing an unknown amount of research to find out (maybe) whether I was guilty of the sin Tom was excoriating us about, or giving Tom a kick in the butt, so naturally..... Having now had Tom's explanation (such as it is) I don't THINK I'm among the errant ones, but if I am, I surely hope that someone will tell me in plain English so I can correct the error of my ways. Tom King From dndcobb@bellsouth.net Wed May 22 08:47:01 2002 From: dndcobb@bellsouth.net (D.E. & D.K. Cobb) Date: Wed May 22 07:47:01 2002 Subject: Tom W's post Message-ID: <3CEB942C.3142901E@bellsouth.net> I have to agree with Tom on his suggestion to reply to posts with the removal of extraneous text. It is considered discourteous and when messages are repeated, they become rather difficult to follow. Tom appears to be a straight talker and sometimes his messages appear gruff, but he is right on this topic. It will clarify the posts and make the list an easier read. Donna From RufusPalen@ix.netcom.com Wed May 22 09:04:02 2002 From: RufusPalen@ix.netcom.com (Rufus Palen) Date: Wed May 22 08:04:02 2002 Subject: Tom W's post In-Reply-To: <3CEB942C.3142901E@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Now if we could only remove the extraneous Tom . . . . From Bridget.Ambler@chs.state.co.us Wed May 22 13:26:01 2002 From: Bridget.Ambler@chs.state.co.us (Ambler, Bridget) Date: Wed May 22 12:26:01 2002 Subject: Mail format Message-ID: For those interested (AND using Outlook), one way to eliminate long threads when you "reply" and "forward", is an option available in Outlook. In Outlook, from the Tools menu, choose Options. On the Mail Preferences tab, choose E-mail Options. At the bottom of the page, under replies and forwards, pick from the scroll-down menu "Do not include original message". This option automatically sends only your reply and not previous messages for all e-mail correspondence. Regards, Bridget Ambler From pendarch@yahoo.com Thu May 23 13:26:02 2002 From: pendarch@yahoo.com (Thomas Penders) Date: Thu May 23 12:26:02 2002 Subject: Florida Turpentine Camps Message-ID: <20020523172559.86678.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com> I am working on a project involving a turpentine camp here in Florida. Does anyone know of a really good reference for this subject? ===== Thomas E. Penders, MS, RPA Principal Archaeologist Thomas E. Penders & Associates P.O. Box 787 Titusville, Florida 32781-0787 Phone: (321) 267-0073 or 794-6703 Fax: (321) 267-0073 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From howardsmith@excite.com Thu May 23 14:40:01 2002 From: howardsmith@excite.com (howard smith) Date: Thu May 23 13:40:01 2002 Subject: Lard Cans Message-ID: <20020523183906.5872A3DFF@xmxpita.excite.com> --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__e516a9cd4218b0fbb00746548030af41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have any good references on the dating of lard cans? They seem to be almost ubiquitous on historic sites around here, and are common as IOs, and I'm wondering if they have any value for dating purposes. Thanks! Howard L. Smith Las Cruces Field Office Bureau of Land Management ------------------------------------------------ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__e516a9cd4218b0fbb00746548030af41 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does anyone have any good references on the dating of lard cans? They seem to be almost ubiquitous on historic sites around here, and are common as IOs, and I'm wondering if they have any value for dating purposes. Thanks!

Howard L. Smith
Las Cruces Field Office
Bureau of Land Management

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web! --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__e516a9cd4218b0fbb00746548030af41-- From RufusPalen@ix.netcom.com Thu May 23 15:21:02 2002 From: RufusPalen@ix.netcom.com (Rufus Palen) Date: Thu May 23 14:21:02 2002 Subject: Lard Cans In-Reply-To: <20020523183906.5872A3DFF@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2026D.AA4DA020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Really, I think we should try to keep our personal lives and dating preferences off of this list. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2026D.AA4DA020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Really, I think we should try to keep our personal lives and = dating=20 preferences off of this list.
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2026D.AA4DA020-- From Michael.Schifferli@oprhp.state.ny.us Thu May 23 15:36:01 2002 From: Michael.Schifferli@oprhp.state.ny.us (Schifferli, Michael (PEB)) Date: Thu May 23 14:36:01 2002 Subject: Lard Cans Message-ID: what do you expect from someone probably associated with NMSU? -----Original Message----- From: Rufus Palen [mailto:RufusPalen@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 3:23 PM To: howardsmith@excite.com; acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: RE: Lard Cans Really, I think we should try to keep our personal lives and dating preferences off of this list. From Dan.Flemmer@nd.usda.gov Thu May 23 15:54:02 2002 From: Dan.Flemmer@nd.usda.gov (Dan FLemmer) Date: Thu May 23 14:54:02 2002 Subject: Lard Cans References: <20020523183906.5872A3DFF@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <3CED47BC.62B44C7A@nd.usda.gov> None that I know of except that they're still used in the fast-food trade for veggie oil. This response of course discounts one's social preferences. "D" howard smith wrote: > > Does anyone have any good references on the dating of lard cans? They seem to be almost ubiquitous on historic sites around here, and are common as IOs, and I'm wondering if they have any value for dating purposes. Thanks! Howard L. Smith Las Cruces Field Office Bureau of Land Management > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! From howardsmith@excite.com Thu May 23 16:23:02 2002 From: howardsmith@excite.com (howard smith) Date: Thu May 23 15:23:02 2002 Subject: Polk, Schifferli, and Lard Cans Message-ID: <20020523202235.26D9A3E3D@xmxpita.excite.com> --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__e7569794647f68d3445246f7ed5f4030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey come on, guys, once is funny, but twice?? And yes, I am a grad student at NMSU, thank you very much! I am aware of the many post-lard uses of the cans--they are such neat little mini-buckets and all, but what I am wondering is if the different styles of manufacture, especially the attachment of the handle/bail, has some sort of chronological significance. I have looked on the Web and all I get are antique stores, rude jokes about people's posteriors, and recipes for everything from tamales (yum!) to deep fried possum jowls. Howard ------------------------------------------------ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__e7569794647f68d3445246f7ed5f4030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey come on, guys, once is funny, but twice??

And yes, I am a grad student at NMSU, thank you very much!

I am aware of the many post-lard uses of the cans--they are such neat little mini-buckets and all, but what I am wondering is if the different styles of manufacture, especially the attachment of the handle/bail, has some sort of chronological significance. I have looked on the Web and all I get are antique stores, rude jokes about people's posteriors, and recipes for everything from tamales (yum!) to deep fried possum jowls.

Howard


Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web! --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__e7569794647f68d3445246f7ed5f4030-- From howardsmith@excite.com Thu May 23 16:26:01 2002 From: howardsmith@excite.com (howard smith) Date: Thu May 23 15:26:01 2002 Subject: double posts Message-ID: <20020523202514.D6B0C3E17@xmxpita.excite.com> --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__21da82d3f9fc0e5c5134eecf5c9f3269 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The last replies to the lard can thread are all doubled--is anyone else having this problem, or is it just me? ------------------------------------------------ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__21da82d3f9fc0e5c5134eecf5c9f3269 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The last replies to the lard can thread are all doubled--is anyone else having this problem, or is it just me?



Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web! --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__21da82d3f9fc0e5c5134eecf5c9f3269-- From Michael.Schifferli@oprhp.state.ny.us Thu May 23 16:33:01 2002 From: Michael.Schifferli@oprhp.state.ny.us (Schifferli, Michael (PEB)) Date: Thu May 23 15:33:01 2002 Subject: Polk, Schifferli, and Lard Cans Message-ID: No Offense meant. Your neck... is some of the most beautiful in the country. -----Original Message----- From: howard smith [mailto:howardsmith@excite.com] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:23 PM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Polk, Schifferli, and Lard Cans Hey come on, guys, once is funny, but twice?? And yes, I am a grad student at NMSU, thank you very much! I am aware of the many post-lard uses of the cans--they are such neat little mini-buckets and all, but what I am wondering is if the different styles of manufacture, especially the attachment of the handle/bail, has some sort of chronological significance. I have looked on the Web and all I get are antique stores, rude jokes about people's posteriors, and recipes for everything from tamales (yum!) to deep fried possum jowls. Howard _____ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From Scot.Sandefur@AmericanTower.com Thu May 23 17:43:01 2002 From: Scot.Sandefur@AmericanTower.com (Scot Sandefur) Date: Thu May 23 16:43:01 2002 Subject: Polk, Schifferli, and Lard Cans Message-ID: <1144F4529270684AA731E96F48B041A3026B3D81@atcsdmaexm04.americantower.com> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C202A2.543879A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Title of item: ARMOUR PURE LARD BUCKET TIN Seller: marcstac@rnet.com Starts: May-17-02 15:52:43 PDT Ends: May-24-02 15:52:43 PDT Price: Starts at $9.95 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=2104426183 Item Description: This is a Armour pure lard tin with a bucket handle. I cannot find a date on it. It has a recipe for 2 minute pie crust and a recipe for bisquits on it. I PREFER paypal but with also accept money orders NO PERSONAL CHECKS. Insurance is optional but I am not responsible once the item is shipped. Payment is expected within 10 days of auctions end. Thanks for looking! Have a GREAT day!! Stacie Scot Sandefur Environmental Compliance Manager -----Original Message----- From: howard smith [mailto:howardsmith@excite.com] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 1:23 PM To: acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Polk, Schifferli, and Lard Cans Hey come on, guys, once is funny, but twice?? And yes, I am a grad student at NMSU, thank you very much! I am aware of the many post-lard uses of the cans--they are such neat little mini-buckets and all, but what I am wondering is if the different styles of manufacture, especially the attachment of the handle/bail, has some sort of chronological significance. I have looked on the Web and all I get are antique stores, rude jokes about people's posteriors, and recipes for everything from tamales (yum!) to deep fried possum jowls. Howard _____ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ------_=_NextPart_001_01C202A2.543879A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Title of item:      ARMOUR PURE LARD BUCKET = TIN<= /p>

Seller:   marcstac@rnet.com<= /p>

Starts:   May-17-02 15:52:43 PDT

Ends:    May-24-02 15:52:43 PDT

Price:    Starts at $9.95

To bid on the item, go to:       &nbs= p;  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2104426183= <= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

Item Description:       &nbs= p;           &nbs= p;    <= /p>

This is a Armour pure lard tin with a bucket handle. = I cannot find a date on it. It has a recipe for 2 minute pie crust and a = recipe for bisquits on it.  I = PREFER paypal but with also accept money orders NO PERSONAL CHECKS. Insurance = is optional but I am not responsible once the item is shipped.  Payment is expected within 10 = days of auctions end.  Thanks for = looking! Have a GREAT day!! Stacie

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]> 

=

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]> 

=

Scot = Sandefur

E= nvironmental Compliance Manager

=  

=

-----Original Message-----
From: howard smith [mailto:howardsmith@excite.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, = 2002 1:23 PM
To: = acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net
Subject: Polk, = Schifferli, and Lard Cans

 


Hey come on, guys, once is funny, but twice??

And yes, I am a grad student at NMSU, thank you very much!

I am aware of the many post-lard uses of the cans--they are such neat = little mini-buckets and all, but what I am wondering is if the different = styles of manufacture, especially the attachment of the handle/bail, has some = sort of chronological significance. I have looked on the Web and all I get = are antique stores, rude jokes about people's posteriors, and recipes for everything from tamales (yum!) to deep fried possum jowls.

Howard

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web! =

------_=_NextPart_001_01C202A2.543879A0-- From gclark@wahoo.sjsu.edu Thu May 23 18:02:02 2002 From: gclark@wahoo.sjsu.edu (Gerald Clark) Date: Thu May 23 17:02:02 2002 Subject: Polk, Schifferli, and Lard Cans In-Reply-To: <20020523202235.26D9A3E3D@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: Howard, some general thoughts on the artifactual lard cans; and I'm going to assume you have not done the following already. 1. have you posted your request to listservs dealing with archeology, historic archeology, or museum collections. 2. do you have any lard brand names on which you can run Google.com [and the like] searches. 3. do you know anyone in the resource management agencies (FS, BLM, NPS, etc.)and/or in academia and/or museumia and/or the world of antiques who is an expert in this or related stuff. 4. have you in your posession or have you searched out bibliobraphies (pref. annotated) pertaining to artifacts found in historic sites generally. 5. have you contacted any auction houses that handle stuff of this ilk. 6. have you searched in databases that index historical or archeological or museum or antiques journals/magazines (might have to go to your local public lib or university to access these) There are probably more places to search, but if time is severely limited I would probably concentrate first on #s 1, 2, and 6. Who knows, maybe you've found an MA or PhD topic! Good luck. Gerald Clark San Francisco, CA On Thu, 23 May 2002, howard smith wrote: > > I am aware of the many post-lard uses of the cans--they are such neat little mini-buckets and all, but what I am wondering is if the different styles of manufacture, especially the attachment of the handle/bail, has some sort of chronological significance. I have looked on the Web and all I get are antique stores, rude jokes about people's posteriors, and recipes for everything from tamales (yum!) to deep fried possum jowls. > > Howard > > ------------------------------------------------ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > From irwinj@BRAGG.ARMY.MIL Fri May 24 13:43:01 2002 From: irwinj@BRAGG.ARMY.MIL (Irwin, Jeff Contractor) Date: Fri May 24 12:43:01 2002 Subject: Position Announcement Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2034A.798F8FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Architectural Historian at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Please see info at link below. http://www.cemml.colostate.edu/cemmljob.htm ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2034A.798F8FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Position Announcement

Architectural Historian at Fort Bragg, = North Carolina.  Please see info at link below.

http://www.cemml.colostate.edu/cemmljob.htm=


------_=_NextPart_001_01C2034A.798F8FB0-- From dndcobb@bellsouth.net Fri May 24 14:07:02 2002 From: dndcobb@bellsouth.net (D.E. & D.K. Cobb) Date: Fri May 24 13:07:02 2002 Subject: lard cans References: <200205241701.g4OH1Ed22666@zibal.hubris.net> Message-ID: <3CEE822C.8BE0E70@bellsouth.net> How about attempting to contact the companies who produced the lard? I'd bet the cans have manufacturing states/ cities and the companies, if still in business may be able to help you more than you realize! Some of the city of manufacture Chamber of Commerce may be able to help you find the archives, new names of old companies or, data concerning your cans. BTW- the dating thing was kind of funny the first time! :o) Donna From davidsr01@mindspring.com Mon May 27 12:46:02 2002 From: davidsr01@mindspring.com (David Rotenstein) Date: Mon May 27 11:46:02 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air Message-ID: I've just finished reading the gazillionth CRM report where a consultant has gone out -- after being commanded by a SHPO -- and conducted a "balloon test" for a telecommunications tower project. The consultant included some digital photos of the balloon above the tree lines and concluded that because you could see the balloon from certain points, the proposed tower would adversely affect historic properties. Why, might you ask? Because you can see the balloon. Does being able to see the balloon alter the character and use of the historic properties from which you can see the balloon -- which, by the way, looks nothing like a tower, bobbing side to side and up and down above the trees? Are the digital photos our CRM consultant has included with the report adequate to convey the information necessary about visibility? Has our CRM consultant even read anything on visual impact analyses written by landscape architects? Why does our CRM consultant charge the client for unnecessary work -- work for which our consultant is not equipped or qualified to do in the first place? Has our CRM consultant indicated in the report what type of camera and lenses were used? Why do SHPOs keep accepting the garbage produced by CRM consultants? I was told once by a tower company manager that one CRM company was hired to go out and do a "balloon test" in New England. The CRM consultant thought that the landowner was being really helpful in offering to hold the balloon while the CRM consultant's geologist (apparently an architectural historian wasn't available that day/week/year) went around and took some digital photos of the balloon. The landowner, who looked forward to the lucrative lease he had executed with the tower company, kept inching the balloon lower because he thought it would help the friendly CRM consultant and tower company. Just letting off a little hot air . . . . From avarchaeology@yahoo.com Mon May 27 18:52:01 2002 From: avarchaeology@yahoo.com (Mark Campbell) Date: Mon May 27 17:52:01 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020527225132.75334.qmail@web12506.mail.yahoo.com> David Your first sentence answers the question of why this is done. You state that this worthless studies are done "after being commanded by a SHPO" and you point out that the SHPO keeps approving these studies. I agree that people should be doing studies they are qualified for. AS long as the CRM community, including SHPOs, accepts people conducting studies in areas they have neither the training nor experience to do it will continue. I want to point out that here in th Western Mojave desert we have an increasing number of giant pine trees with parallel symmetry. They are significantly taller than other trees in the area. Someone decided that this form of camoflauge for cell towers is a good idea.THey are more noticable than the bare towers that are painted to blind in with the skyline. They do not look natural. They are unlike any other trees in the area. Hey, but some expert knows what they are doing.- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From petermk@optushome.com.au Mon May 27 21:37:02 2002 From: petermk@optushome.com.au (Peter Marquis-Kyle) Date: Mon May 27 20:37:02 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air References: <20020527225132.75334.qmail@web12506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005001c205e8$1473a530$0200a8c0@Dell4100> The thought of tall conifers infesting the Western Mojave is an absurd delight! Where can I see a picture of these weeds? Who of us will be the first to be commissioned to assess the cultural significance of these mock pine trees? How long before someone points out that they have become 'rare and endangered'? Thank you Mark for telling us about that (and to David for the story of the silly balloons). Peter Marquis-Kyle in the land of the Eucalypts > I want to point out that here in th Western Mojave > desert we have an increasing number of giant pine > trees with parallel symmetry. They are significantly > taller than other trees in the area. Someone decided > that this form of camoflauge for cell towers is a good > idea.THey are more noticable than the bare towers that > are painted to blind in with the skyline. From paladini@warwick.net Mon May 27 22:21:01 2002 From: paladini@warwick.net (Jessica Paladini) Date: Mon May 27 21:21:01 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air In-Reply-To: <005001c205e8$1473a530$0200a8c0@Dell4100> Message-ID: I think that the cell towers that are cropping up all over our countryside are despicable! What more can we do to pollute the aesthetics of our environment? What can we do, though? None of us would want to be without our cell phones. I sure wouldn't--particularly not after an escapade of breaking down on a major highway in the middle of the night with cars zooming by and no shoulder in the road. The towers that look like trees are a heck of a lot better than the standard ugly towers, be they monopoles or three- and four-legged ones. Most people now recognize the "fake" trees and know they are cell towers as soon as they see them. Still, they are less offensive than the other towers. Isn't there other satellite technology that would eliminate the need for the towers proliferating our highways and rural roads? on 5/27/02 6:36 PM, Peter Marquis-Kyle at petermk@optushome.com.au wrote: > The thought of tall conifers infesting the Western Mojave is > an absurd delight! Where can I see a picture of these weeds? > > Who of us will be the first to be commissioned to assess the > cultural significance of these mock pine trees? How long before > someone points out that they have become 'rare and endangered'? > > Thank you Mark for telling us about that (and to David for > the story of the silly balloons). > > Peter Marquis-Kyle > in the land of the Eucalypts > > >> I want to point out that here in th Western Mojave >> desert we have an increasing number of giant pine >> trees with parallel symmetry. They are significantly >> taller than other trees in the area. Someone decided >> that this form of camoflauge for cell towers is a good >> idea.THey are more noticable than the bare towers that >> are painted to blind in with the skyline. > > > > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l > From TFKing106@aol.com Tue May 28 06:18:01 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Tue May 28 05:18:01 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air Message-ID: <175.8e88a16.2a24b34f@aol.com> OK, David, so if the damfool SHPO shouldn't call for baloon tests, just how SHOULD he or she try to get a handle on the visual effects of a cell tower? Tom King From Lildrummrboy4614@aol.com Tue May 28 06:36:02 2002 From: Lildrummrboy4614@aol.com (Lildrummrboy4614@aol.com) Date: Tue May 28 05:36:02 2002 Subject: careers w/a Anthropology/Biology MA Message-ID: <15f.e526d62.2a24b781@aol.com> --part1_15f.e526d62.2a24b781_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all. A friend of mine told me it would be wise to get an MA in Anthropology/Biology. He said this would be easier to get into than historical archaeology. Can anyone tell me what kind of career a Biology/Anthropology, MA, get me into? Thank you very much Carl Kramer --part1_15f.e526d62.2a24b781_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all.  A friend of mine told me it would be wise to get an MA in Anthropology/Biology.  He said this would be easier to get into than historical archaeology.  Can anyone tell me what kind of career a Biology/Anthropology, MA, get me into?  Thank you very much
Carl Kramer --part1_15f.e526d62.2a24b781_boundary-- From TFKing106@aol.com Tue May 28 06:54:02 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Tue May 28 05:54:02 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air Message-ID: <30.276c6a91.2a24bb8a@aol.com> Sure, there are lots of visual assessment tools, and SHPOs and CRM contractors on the whole aren't trained in using them, but to just call for people to do a more sophisticated, professional job strikes me as a bit naive. Your equation with "trying to excavate a Middle Archaic site with a research design focused on studying the site occupants' use of ceramics and intensive agriculture" doesn't seem quite apropos to me; you wouldn't be excavating the Middle Archaic site unless you were doing data recovery, presumably based on some history of prior work, and investing a fair amount of money in the enterprise. The problem an SHPO (or anybody else) faces during the identification and impact assessment phase is figuring out what can realistically be done, within reasonable time and money constraints, to get a handle on impacts. So people have jumped at balloon tests as a solution -- just telling them to get skilled in the discipline of visual impact assessment or hire qualified help doesn't seem helpful to me; it's like insisting on all kinds of expensive and time consuming geomorphological or pedalogical or any other kind of research -- maybe justified in some cases, but hard to justify in every case. Particularly if no other review agency is insisting on it; there's a limit, I think, to which the historic preservation tail can logically wag the visual assessment dog. TKing From paladini@warwick.net Tue May 28 07:17:01 2002 From: paladini@warwick.net (Jessica Paladini) Date: Tue May 28 06:17:01 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air In-Reply-To: <175.8e88a16.2a24b34f@aol.com> Message-ID: on 5/28/02 3:17 AM, TFKing106@aol.com at TFKing106@aol.com wrote: > OK, David, so if the damfool SHPO shouldn't call for baloon tests, just how > SHOULD he or she try to get a handle on the visual effects of a cell tower? > > Tom King What about a crane? That's what we did in our town, although it was on top of a mountain. Are we missing the point here? I don't think the balloon is to show the visual effect of a cell tower. Its purpose is to give an idea of how high above a tree line the tower will rise. From steve.chomko@in.usda.gov Tue May 28 08:26:01 2002 From: steve.chomko@in.usda.gov (steve.chomko) Date: Tue May 28 07:26:01 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air References: <175.8e88a16.2a24b34f@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CF37307.9979558@in.usda.gov> Tom wrote: "...so if the damfool SHPO shouldn't call for baloon tests, just how SHOULD he or she try to get a handle on the visual effects of a cell tower?" Would seem to me that you could digitally paste a scaled image of a cell tower on a picture of the landscape - not a difficult task in today's techno world even if Spielburg isn't available to help - then send the image to the SHPO's landscape architect or someone of your own liking and get a recommendation on potential effect. From davidsr01@mindspring.com Tue May 28 08:50:02 2002 From: davidsr01@mindspring.com (David Rotenstein) Date: Tue May 28 07:50:02 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air In-Reply-To: <30.276c6a91.2a24bb8a@aol.com> Message-ID: But then why aren't the SHPOs and so-called "CRM professionals" informed by the NRHP guidance on the various historic property types potentially affected. The Pennsylvania SHPO, for instance, is in the business of inventing its own historical landscapes to suit its ill-informed adverse effect determinations. A wooded mountainside in 2001 doesn't look the same as it did during a historic district's period of significance when the same mountain was denuded of trees and used as an industrial quarry. SHPOs and "CRM professionals" are inventing all sorts of landscapes without fully thinking through the implications of their actions. How can a tower change the character and use of a planned suburb if a tower is located outside of the historic district's boundaries and if the suburb's own design standards from the early 20th century focus on views INSIDE the suburb and of preserving a specific look for its buildings and streets? From mj@msi-mec.com Tue May 28 09:01:01 2002 From: mj@msi-mec.com (Maura Johnson) Date: Tue May 28 08:01:01 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air Message-ID: So who is the expert (field or profession) for evaluating visual impact of cell towers? ********************** CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE *********************** The information contained in this communication and its attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify postmaster@msi-mec.com and delete the communication without retaining any copies. Thank you. ********************************************************************* From davidsr01@mindspring.com Tue May 28 09:09:01 2002 From: davidsr01@mindspring.com (David Rotenstein) Date: Tue May 28 08:09:01 2002 Subject: experts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If we are to believe the CRM industry, it's archaeologists, geologists, biologists, or engineers -- anyone who is available -- just not landscape architects or architectural historians. Some SHPOs are okay with this, just as they are okay with making NRHP evaluations based only on digital photographs of a building's facade or statements of adverse effects without a historic context to justify why a historic property is significant and why a visual impact from outside the historic property's boundary crosses the Section 106 threshold for adversity. From TFKing106@aol.com Tue May 28 10:13:01 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Tue May 28 09:13:01 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air Message-ID: <14f.e77565d.2a24ea65@aol.com> Re: But then why aren't the SHPOs and so-called "CRM professionals" informed by the NRHP guidance on the various historic property types potentially affected. Sheesh, this is rapidly becoming as dumb as the discussion we had a week or so ago about improved approaches to dealing with marginal archeological sites. Do people really think that the National Register, or SHPOs, are omnipotent and omniscient and ought to be able to do the entire profession's thinking for it, so that all one ought to have to do in the field is say "duh duh duh, let's see what SHPO/NRHP guidance has to tell us?" The SHPOs, and the NRHP staff, it should not be necessary to point out, are people, in bureaucracies, with access to particular kinds of expertise and experience and resources, who do the best they can (sic) with what they have, but they're not God. Furthermore, asking for guidance about visual impacts from the NRHP is like asking for eggs from a donkey; if anybody ought to be providing guidance about visual impacts, it's the ACHP. But in fact, David, now you've changed the subject from what you think are BS ways of determining visual impacts to what you think are BS historic landscapes. Could we maybe focus on one thing at a time? TK From Dan.Flemmer@nd.usda.gov Tue May 28 10:17:02 2002 From: Dan.Flemmer@nd.usda.gov (Dan FLemmer) Date: Tue May 28 09:17:02 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air References: <175.8e88a16.2a24b34f@aol.com> <3CF37307.9979558@in.usda.gov> Message-ID: <3CF38FAC.E39EF26E@nd.usda.gov> "steve.chomko" wrote in part: > Would seem to me that you could digitally paste a scaled image of a cell > tower on a picture of the landscape - not a difficult task in today's > techno world even if Spielburg isn't available to help - C'mon Steve......why always make it so simple and cost effective? Sailing tethered balloons has to be a little bit of fun anyway. (Does anyone fill ém with hydrogen and shoot ém down with a tracer?) Your idea would deprive folks of their fun for the day. Added to that bit of disgruntling hot air are all the questions one would have to anticipate from SHPO and answer in advance in order to make certain that SHPO's balloon float idea croaks peacefully. You meanie! "D" From paladini@warwick.net Tue May 28 10:36:02 2002 From: paladini@warwick.net (Jessica Paladini) Date: Tue May 28 09:36:02 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air Message-ID: <3cf395ca.2785.0@warwick.net> >Would seem to me that you could digitally paste a scaled image of a cell >tower on a picture of the landscape - not a difficult task in today's >techno world even if Spielburg isn't available to help - then send the >image to the SHPO's landscape architect or someone of your own liking >and get a recommendation on potential effect. This is not a big deal. It's precisely what was done for the proposed tower in my town. It was done by residents who also photographed the balloon test the same time the applicant's expert did. Then, they replaced the balloon in the photo with a superimposed photo of a cell tower. It was very effective. Jessica From BGreen@TRCSOLUTIONS.com Tue May 28 10:40:02 2002 From: BGreen@TRCSOLUTIONS.com (Green, Bill) Date: Tue May 28 09:40:02 2002 Subject: acra-l digest, Vol 1 #123 - 1 msg Message-ID: David: I think many of the answers to your question lie in the regs themselves. Identification efforts (and presumably evaluation as well) should be commensurate with the scale and nature of the undertaking, as well as the level of Federal involvement. In the case of cell towers, you are dealing with a very small undertaking with minimal Federal involvement by the FAA and/or FCC. And as you correctly brought up, just because you can see the balloon (and presumably the tower when it is constructed) does not mean it will have an affect on the character or use of an historic property. Most of the time, visibility alone (unless you are dealing with an historic landscape) does not diminish the qualities that make the property eligible for the National Register and thus there is no effect. I sympathize with your frustration over some of these small cell tower reports, but I really don't think that in most cases a cell tower warrants more lenghty documentation (nor does the law require it). On a more troubling note (to me anyway), I was recently told by an individual in our State Archaeologist's office (South Carolina) that my company is the only one that has ever recorded an archaeological site and curated the artifacts as part of a cell tower project. This is particularly troubling because we've only been doing this type of work for the past year or so, and we've recorded approximately 8-10 sites during that short time (two of which were potentially eligible). This makes me wonder whether other folks just aren't doing the necessary fieldwork, or whether they just aren't recording the sites when they find them. Bill Green TRC 1. balloon tests & hot air (David Rotenstein) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "David Rotenstein" To: "ACRA-L" Subject: balloon tests & hot air Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:47:23 -0400 I've just finished reading the gazillionth CRM report where a consultant has gone out -- after being commanded by a SHPO -- and conducted a "balloon test" for a telecommunications tower project. The consultant included some digital photos of the balloon above the tree lines and concluded that because you could see the balloon from certain points, the proposed tower would adversely affect historic properties. Why, might you ask? Because you can see the balloon. Does being able to see the balloon alter the character and use of the historic properties from which you can see the balloon -- which, by the way, looks nothing like a tower, bobbing side to side and up and down above the trees? Are the digital photos our CRM consultant has included with the report adequate to convey the information necessary about visibility? Has our CRM consultant even read anything on visual impact analyses written by landscape architects? Why does our CRM consultant charge the client for unnecessary work -- work for which our consultant is not equipped or qualified to do in the first place? Has our CRM consultant indicated in the report what type of camera and lenses were used? Why do SHPOs keep accepting the garbage produced by CRM consultants? I was told once by a tower company manager that one CRM company was hired to go out and do a "balloon test" in New England. The CRM consultant thought that the landowner was being really helpful in offering to hold the balloon while the CRM consultant's geologist (apparently an architectural historian wasn't available that day/week/year) went around and took some digital photos of the balloon. The landowner, who looked forward to the lucrative lease he had executed with the tower company, kept inching the balloon lower because he thought it would help the friendly CRM consultant and tower company. Just letting off a little hot air . . . . --__--__-- _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l End of acra-l Digest From jeanneward@hotmail.com Tue May 28 10:42:02 2002 From: jeanneward@hotmail.com (Jeanne Ward) Date: Tue May 28 09:42:02 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air Message-ID: All the posts on this thread have gone to my Junk Mail folder because I have a filter set for the word "hot". Coincidence? Jeanne A. Ward, RPA President/Principal Investigator Applied Archaeology and History Associates, Inc. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From TFKing106@aol.com Tue May 28 10:56:01 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Tue May 28 09:56:01 2002 Subject: achp, etc. Message-ID: David -- I don't get it. You excoriate the NRHP for failing to provide the guidance people need about (seemingly) visual effects. I point out that that's not the NRHP's job but the ACHP's. You respond that the ACHP is too overworked to do it. Well, sure, but so what? It's still not the Register's job. In fact, I'd argue that it's nobody's job, and everybody's; that's why we're paid big bucks as professionals. As for the "inextricable linkage" between BS visual effects and BS landscapes, I don't think that's true -- you can have BS visual effects on all kinds of things, and you can have BS landscapes with reference to all kinds of effects. If your balloon argument were correct, it would be as correct with reference to a historic courthouse or urban district as it would be with respect to a rural landscape. TKing From pendarch@yahoo.com Tue May 28 13:19:02 2002 From: pendarch@yahoo.com (Thomas Penders) Date: Tue May 28 12:19:02 2002 Subject: Re; Balloon Studies & Hot Air Message-ID: <20020528171845.37907.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> There is an alternative to the balloon study. There are photosimulation studies. There are companies that take a photograph from the historic property of your choice in the direction of the tower location. They then can enter into the photograph the type/style of tower and height you want. It looks very well done and gives a true feel for the potential impact. You would have to check with your local SHPO to determine if they accept this type of assessment. I have seen photo simulations and in my opinion they look alot better than any balloon study I've seen. ===== Thomas E. Penders, MS, RPA Principal Archaeologist Thomas E. Penders & Associates P.O. Box 787 Titusville, Florida 32781-0787 Phone: (321) 267-0073 or 794-6703 Fax: (321) 267-0073 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From bthompson@pgi-va.com Tue May 28 14:05:02 2002 From: bthompson@pgi-va.com (Brian Thompson) Date: Tue May 28 13:05:02 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air Message-ID: <200205281408.AA3899917122@pgi-va.com> Forgive me if I’ve missed the point, but hasn’t anyone heard of viewshed analyses as a means for assessing visual impacts of cell towers? I thought this was a pretty common practice, but judging from the paucity of viewshed references in this thread, I may be mistaken. A viewshed analysis can be performed in at most 10 minutes using spatial data for your area of interest and a software application like ArcView 3D Analyst, ERDAS, or Mfworks. You’ll need topographic data, height of the tower, heights of surrounding structures, and any other features you wish to map, such as utility right-of-ways, political boundaries, etc. Most of this can be acquired from the USGS, county/city governments, fellow contractors, etc. It shouldn’t be difficult to acquire, and it certainly isn’t expensive or time consuming to process---provided you have someone who knows how to operate the software. It’s unquestionably cheaper, easier, and infinitely more ACCURATE than using any combination of a balloon, crane, and/or photography. This isn’t exactly Lucas-esque wizardry and is used quite regularly in CRM. I can’t even begin to concoct an appropriate, sharp-tongued analogy to convey the absurdity of using balloons to perform visual impact assessments. It’s like…like…no, I’ll only risk a seizure. If anyone out there is in dire need of some visual impact assessments, or just wants more info, e-mail me off the list. I’m always glad to talk shop. (My opinions only, not Performance Group's or the Army's.) Brian Thompson GIS Analyst/ Archaeologist Performance Group, Inc. Directorate of Installation Support, GIS Center Ft. Belvoir, VA bthompson@pgi-va.com www.pgi-va.com From klein@cloud9.net Tue May 28 15:36:02 2002 From: klein@cloud9.net (Joel Klein) Date: Tue May 28 14:36:02 2002 Subject: balloon tests & hot air In-Reply-To: <200205281408.AA3899917122@pgi-va.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020528151636.00bc9e00@mail.cloud9.net> I've been reading this thread all day, but I can't let this go by. Sure you can make computer generated viewsheds, but they are first order approximations only and represent worst cases because they fail to take into account the height of vegetation and intervening structures. A second-order estimate can be derived by assuming that all areas shown as vegetated on the appropriate layer of the USGS quad is a particular height (40 feet is commonly used in the Northeast). The most cost-effective way to map the "real" viewshed from any given point (assuming you know the height of the proposed structure at the center of the viewshed) is ground -truthing with a balloon or other object raised to the height of the height of the proposed structure. Where historic structures are concerned, one can use a computer generated viewshed to define the survey area, but the view from each significant structure must be checked in the field during a balloon fly. As Tom King pointed out earlier, there is a world of difference between something being in a viewshed and it being adversely affected--although I know some agency people that argue otherwise. Distance is an obvious factor that is usually taken into account, but by no means is it taken into account on a consistent basis. As to using balloons being absurd, I can only say that all of the viewshed methodologies I am familiar with, including those of the Corps, BLM, the Forest Service, various Canadian and state agencies make use of, or assume the use of, balloons or something similar as part of the assessment methodology. At 02:08 PM 5/28/02 -0400, you wrote: >A viewshed analysis can be performed in at most 10 minutes using spatial >data for your area of interest and a software application like ArcView 3D >Analyst, ERDAS, or Mfworks. You’ll need topographic data, height of the >tower, heights of surrounding structures, and any other features you wish >to map, such as utility right-of-ways, political boundaries, etc. Most of >this can be acquired from the USGS, county/city governments, fellow >contractors, etc. It shouldn’t be difficult to acquire, and it certainly >isn’t expensive or time consuming to process---provided you have someone >who knows how to operate the software. It’s unquestionably cheaper, >easier, and infinitely more ACCURATE than using any combination of a >balloon, crane, and/or photography. > >I can’t even begin to concoct an appropriate, sharp-tongued analogy to >convey the absurdity of using balloons to perform visual impact >assessments. It’s like…like…no, I’ll only risk a seizure. > >I From avarchaeology@yahoo.com Wed May 29 02:08:02 2002 From: avarchaeology@yahoo.com (Mark Campbell) Date: Wed May 29 01:08:02 2002 Subject: hot air In-Reply-To: <14f.e77565d.2a24ea65@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020529060732.24885.qmail@web12506.mail.yahoo.com> If the visual impact study is done as part of a 106 or 110 project the agency sends the report to the SHPO for review. The SHPO reviews most doumnets instead of the ACHP. They act on behalf of the ACHP. Come on Tom you know the process better than I do. I agree it is flawed process but it is what we have to work with. --- TFKing106@aol.com wrote: Furthermore, asking for guidance > about visual impacts from > the NRHP is like asking for eggs from a donkey; if > anybody ought to be > providing guidance about visual impacts, it's the > ACHP. > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From TFKing106@aol.com Wed May 29 06:56:02 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Wed May 29 05:56:02 2002 Subject: hot air Message-ID: <89.189d7120.2a260d94@aol.com> avarchaeology says: Come on Tom you know the process better than I do. I daresay. What's your point? What does the fact that the SHPO reviews most documents and the ACHP doesn't have to do with the issues of visual impact, cultural landscapes, and responsibility for guideline promulgation that form (as best I can untangle them) the tangled strands of the "hot air" thread? Tom King From jbrandon@hardlinesdesign.com Wed May 29 10:31:02 2002 From: jbrandon@hardlinesdesign.com (R. Joe Brandon - Director of Archaeology) Date: Wed May 29 09:31:02 2002 Subject: PI position $36,000/yr Message-ID: Prehistoric P.I. Hardlines Design Company Columbus, Ohio Tired of leading a semi-nomadic lifestyle? Do you have three to five years of experience, excellent organizational ability, and highly developed writing skills as well as field knowledge? Are you looking for a more stable, permanent position that does not involve digging STUs every day? Would you like to apply your higher education to your job, and continue developing your more advanced skills? Hardlines Design Company (HDC) is seeking a qualified Prehistoric Archaeologist to fill the position of Principal Investigator of Prehistoric Archaeology. HDC, located in Columbus, Ohio, offers a broad range of CRM, architectural and planning services. The Archaeology Division specializes in the mitigation and testing of archaeological resources. Minimum of a Master¹s degree is required. Applicants must specialize in Prehistoric Archaeology in the Southeastern and/or Midwestern United States. Favorable consideration will be given to candidates with experience in the state of Ohio. The successful candidate will supervise the timely and successful completion of projects. Applicants should have three to five years of project management experience, including proven experience with cost estimation, budgeting, scope preparation, and running large projects such as Phase III mitigations. Understanding of CRM law will be an important advantage. Applicants must be dedicated to delivering a quality product that is on schedule and within budget. The successful candidate will supervise report production as well as fieldwork. Applicants must be deadline oriented, communicate effectively with clients and co-workers, have developed the ability to manage multiple tasks and personnel, and possess proven organizational skills. Applicants must relocate to Columbus and must be available for some travel (approximately 20-30%). This position will start at $36,000 per year, depending on experience. Travel per diem is paid at $25-30 per day, depending on state and client, and typically includes a private hotel room. HDC offers a comprehensive benefits package that includes paid vacation and personal days, health insurance, dental and vision coverage, a flexible spending account, 401K, pension plan and health club membership. Other benefits include tuition assistance, paid membership in one professional organization of your choice, and sponsorship to attend one professional conference per year. Hardlines Design Company is an equal opportunity employer. Qualified applicants will receive consideration without regard to religion, age, sex, national origin, race, disability or marital status. For consideration, applicants should submit cover letter, Vita, three references with telephone numbers/e-mail addresses, and a writing sample. The writing sample should be at least 5-7 pages in length, and ideally will be a small section of a report that the applicant produced. In your cover letter, please explain why you are the ideal candidate for this position. Please send original hardcopy (no faxes) application materials to: R. Joe Brandon c/o Kirsten Kinder Office Manager Hardlines Design Company 4608 Indianola Avenue Columbus, Ohio 43214 Or you may email your application materials in .pdf, .rtf or .doc format to: kkinder@hardlinesdesign.com -------- <- cut and forward here -> -------- ***Please post or forward the following attachment to colleagues*** ------------- ---Shovelbums.org - 2nd only to the trowel--- ------------- Let your students/colleagues/employer know where they can join another 6700+ (as of Spring, 2002) CRM professionals and CRM firms to find out first, or announce, when and where the CRM jobs are happening. Receive an e-mail as soon as a job become available...anywhere. The most important aspect of this list is that it is for one purpose only.: announcing jobs/non paying volunteer postings in the international CRM field at all levels; Field Tech, Professors, SHPO’s, etc... Caveat Emptor though my friends. Not all jobs pay the same, nor is their treatment of employees the same - as the companies are checking your references, you should also check them out - make sure they pay fair wages, treat their employees professionally, and do quality work. If you have at least a BA you deserve fair remuneration, so ask for it, and in turn you provide your employer with excellent service. You ARE a trained professional, NOT a "shovelbum" - the name is in jest - act professional, expect to be treated like one. Join/change settings @ http://www.shovelbums.org/ Unsubscribe send a blank e-mail to: Shovelbums-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com R. Joe Brandon - List Moderator mailto:rjoe@shovelbums.org ----- Useful CRM employment links ----- http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/ioa/afs/testpit.html International listings. http://www.acra-crm.org/ Join acra-L the best mailing list a CRM professional can be on. http://www.swanet.org/jobs.html SouthWest US work resource links. http://www.archaeology.about.com all things archaeology. Shovelbums hiring rule #1. Always call 2-3 references before taking on a crew member! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------- R. Joe Brandon Director of Archaeology Hardlines Design Company 4608 Indianola Ave Columbus, Oh 43214 614-784-8733 (phone) 614-783-8202 (cell) 614-784-9336 (fax) www.hardlinesdesign.com -------------------------- From StephenieK@CTED.WA.GOV Wed May 29 14:35:01 2002 From: StephenieK@CTED.WA.GOV (Kramer, Stephenie (OCD)) Date: Wed May 29 13:35:01 2002 Subject: Job Opportunity at OAHP Message-ID: <2F4FBFB42208A9419CB1D2FD331BD2B9023B12DE@ctedmxoly01.CTED.WA.GOV> > http://www.ocd.wa.gov/info/lgd/oahp/Job.htm > > STATE ARCHAEOLOGIST > $3215-$4115 per month (range 52 ) > > Open: Until Filled > LOCATION > There is one project opening with the Department of Community, Trade and > Economic Development in Olympia. This position is funded by the Bonneville > Power Administration (BPA). The Bonneville Power Administration > Archaeological Services Project is expected to be funded through fiscal > year 2006 or longer.. This register will only be used to fill project > vacancies as they occur in Olympia (34.1). > DUTIES > The selected candidate will be responsible for reviewing undertakings > pursuant to Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act of 1996 > (as amended) for all BPA related project including transmission lines, > power facilities, and Columbia River and Snake River system hydro > operations, as a representative of the Office of Archaeology and Historic > Preservation (OAHP). The candidate will represent the OAHP in Cultural > Resources meetings, planning sessions and field visits regarding BPA > undertakings, and will work closely with the BPA archaeological staff. > This position is expected to travel 40% of the time, and includes field > visits. Weekly meetings in Portland at the BPA offices are required. This > position will have benefits. > HOW TO APPLY > Initial screening will be based solely on the information contained in > your application form. > Send a completed Washington State job application > to: > Department of Personnel > Applications Unit > 600 S. Franklin St. > PO Box 47561 > Olympia, WA 98504-7561 > WHO MAY APPLY > This recruitment is open to anyone who meets the requirements. > REQUIREMENTS > A Ph.D. in anthropology with specialization in archaeology. > OR > A Master's degree in anthropology with specialization in archaeology and > two years of professional experience in archaeological research, > administration or management of which at least one year is at the > supervisory level; at least four months of supervised field and analytic > experience. > EXAM > The following exam is an evaluation of your experience and training. We > will mail your score to you, but we cannot tell you your ranking on the > list of job applicants. > INSTRUCTIONS: Type or write your answers to these questions on additional > sheets of paper, numbering your answers to correspond with each item > listed. Place your name and social security number on each sheet of paper > and attach the sheets to your completed application. The raters will score > only those answers that follow the instructions. Additional information > will not be accepted after the closing date of this announcement. > EXPERIENCE: For each of the following activities, briefly describe your > experience and include your job title, employer, and the number of months > you performed each activity. You may list volunteer experience for any of > these. Provide an estimate of the hours worked per month for each > volunteer activity. > 1. Describe your experience providing information to, or consulting with, > public entities (e.g., federal, state, local, or > tribal governments) regarding archaeological undertakings in accordance > with the provisions of Section 106 of the > National Historic Preservation Act. > 2. Describe your experience addressing cultural resource management > issues, either through a job assignment or > academic research. > Keep a copy of your application and exam responses. > You may be asked to provide them if contacted for an interview. > > > > > > Stephenie Kramer > Assistant State Archaeologist > Washington State Office of Community Development > Office of Archaeology and Historic Preservation > 1063 S. Capitol Way, Suite 106 > Olympia, Washington 98501 > (360) 586-3083 > fax (360) 586-3067 > www.oahp.wa.gov > > > From avarchaeology@yahoo.com Wed May 29 16:44:02 2002 From: avarchaeology@yahoo.com (Mark Campbell) Date: Wed May 29 15:44:02 2002 Subject: hot air In-Reply-To: <89.189d7120.2a260d94@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020529204309.97017.qmail@web12508.mail.yahoo.com> You sad people shouldn't look to SHPOs for direction yet the SHPOs do set direction, give guidance, and review documents in place of or on behalf of the ACHP. This is why people look to the SHPOs for guidance. That is my point. So what is so tangled about it? --- TFKing106@aol.com wrote: > avarchaeology says: > > Come on Tom > you know the process better than I do. > > I daresay. What's your point? What does the fact > that the SHPO reviews most > documents and the ACHP doesn't have to do with the > issues of visual impact, > cultural landscapes, and responsibility for > guideline promulgation that form > (as best I can untangle them) the tangled strands of > the "hot air" thread? > > Tom King > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From LLautccr@aol.com Thu May 30 09:35:01 2002 From: LLautccr@aol.com (LLautccr@aol.com) Date: Thu May 30 08:35:01 2002 Subject: Position Available, Senior Archaeologist Message-ID: <14e.e942dc1.2a278442@aol.com> --part1_14e.e942dc1.2a278442_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT--SENIOR ARCHAEOLOGIST Coastal Carolina Research, Inc., a cultural resources firm located in historic Tarboro, North Carolina, is seeking a qualified individual for a position as a Senior Archaeologist. A Master's degree in archaeology is required with three years of supervisory experience preferred. Applicants must meet the Secretary of the Interior's professional qualifications and must possess excellent organizational, research, and writing skills. The position involves directing field investigations, supervising personnel, and conducting field surveys, research, analysis, and report preparation. The ability to work well with other staff and to meet project deadlines is essential. Familiarity with Section 106 and other cultural resource regulations is preferred. The position involves extensive travel (about 30 percent) in the Southeast and Mid-Atlantic regions. Applicants must be physically able to work in various types of terrain from the mountains to the coast. This is a full-time, salaried position. Competitive salary based on qualifications and experience. Benefits include vacation, holidays, medical insurance, and retirement. Interested candidates should send a letter of interest with current vita and references to: Loretta Lautzenheiser Coastal Carolina Research, Inc. 310 E. Baker Street Tarboro, NC 27886 252-641-1444 252-641-1235 fax www.ccrtarboro.com Coastal Carolina Research, Inc., is an Equal Opportunity Employer and does not discriminate on the basis of race, sex, age, or national origin. --part1_14e.e942dc1.2a278442_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT--SENIOR ARCHAEOLOGIST


Coastal Carolina Research, Inc., a cultural resources firm located in historic Tarboro, North Carolina, is seeking a qualified individual for a position as a Senior Archaeologist.  A Master's degree in archaeology is required  with three years of supervisory experience preferred.  Applicants must meet the Secretary of the Interior's professional qualifications and must possess excellent organizational, research, and writing skills.  The position involves directing field investigations, supervising personnel, and conducting field surveys, research, analysis, and report preparation.  The ability to work well with other staff and to meet project deadlines is essential.  Familiarity with Section 106 and other cultural resource regulations is preferred.  The position involves extensive travel (about 30 percent) in the Southeast and Mid-Atlantic regions.  Applicants must be physically able to work in various types of terrain from the mountains to the coast.

This is a full-time, salaried position.   Competitive salary based on qualifications and  experience.  Benefits include vacation, holidays, medical insurance, and retirement.

Interested candidates should send a letter of interest with current vita and references to:

Loretta Lautzenheiser
Coastal Carolina Research, Inc.
310 E. Baker Street
Tarboro, NC 27886

252-641-1444
252-641-1235 fax
www.ccrtarboro.com

Coastal Carolina Research, Inc., is an Equal Opportunity Employer and does not
discriminate on the basis of race, sex, age, or national origin.
--part1_14e.e942dc1.2a278442_boundary-- From BGreen@TRCSOLUTIONS.com Thu May 30 10:41:16 2002 From: BGreen@TRCSOLUTIONS.com (Green, Bill) Date: Thu May 30 09:41:16 2002 Subject: Devils Gate Message-ID: I just received the following from the SAA Gov't Affairs Committee. Does anyone know how Section 106 responsibilities could have been fulfilled for Devils Gate if the agency itself is opposing the sale of the property? Bill Green TRC H.R. 4103 Sponsor: Hansen, R-UT Status: April 9, 2002; considered and passed by the House Resources Committee on May 22; pending before the full House. Purpose: Would direct the BLM to transfer ownership of 940 acres in and around the Martin=s Cove / Devil=s Gate area to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; guarantee free public access to the sight in perpetuity; give the government right of first refusal if the LDS should sell the land; and states that the bill sets no precedent pertaining to the sale of government land to private entities. Background: The LDS Church has had a cooperative agreement that allows it to interpret and maintain (with BLM oversight) the historical resources in Martin=s Cove. That agreement has expired. The Church has sought ownership of the Cove area outright through a land swap with the BLM, but the agency has not agreed to a deal. This legislation would mandate the sale of the land outright, with the proceeds going to the National Trails Interpretive Center Foundation of Casper, Wyoming. The original bill would have mandated the sale of more than 1,600 acres, with no public access guarantee and no language on precedent. These provisions were added in an amendment by Rep. Barbara Cubin, R-WY, during the committee business session on May 22. A field hearing on the bill was held in Casper, Wyoming on May 4, and another hearing in Washington, D.C. on May 16. SAA activity: Members of the SAA Government Affairs Committee have had extensive discussions on this issue, and have formulated a position that questions the need for the sale of the land to the Church, given the proven success of the cooperative agreement; warns Congress about the adverse precedent for government ownership of cultural resources that the sale could establish; and points out that although Section 106 obligations have been fulfilled for the 141 acres that contain the Cove itself, H.R. 4103 would mandate the sale of significantly more acreage than that, where no such activities have taken place. SAA staff met with House Resources Committee staff to communicate the association=s concerns. There was a Resources Subcommittee field hearing on May 4 in Casper on the bill, at which an administration witness gave a tentative endorsement of the legislation. SAA attempted to secure a witness seat for Dr. Kelly, but was unsuccessful. Testimony incorporating SAA=s posit! ion was submitted for the written record and is attached below. H.R. 4103 can be accessed at www.thomas.loc.gov. Testimony for both hearings can also be accessed at the Resources Committee=s website. Outlook: This legislation is one of Chairman Hansen's top priorities and has bipartisan support. It is likely that the House will pass the bill without much debate. The administration has announced that it does not oppose the sale, as long as some qualifications are placed on the sale. Wyoming Senator Craig Thomas, R, has announced he is opposed to the bill because of the risk of precedent being set, and is working on alternatives to the bill. However, Senator Orrin Hatch, R-UT, has spoken in favor of the bill. Once in the Senate, the legislation will have to be referred to the Energy and Natural Resources Committee. From TFKing106@aol.com Thu May 30 11:29:02 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Thu May 30 10:29:02 2002 Subject: Devils Gate Message-ID: <146.f324a53.2a279f08@aol.com> Bill -- Unless Congress specifically exempts the transaction from its terms, Section 106 would have to be complied with by BLM in transferring the property. However, if Congress directs BLM to transfer it, NOT transferring it is not an alternative that BLM could consider. Same as when Congress established the Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) program in DOD -- DOD couldn't NOT close or transfer a base that Congress put on the BRAC list, but it still had to comply with 106, NEPA, etc. TKing From bmartin@swca.com Thu May 30 12:23:02 2002 From: bmartin@swca.com (Bill Martin) Date: Thu May 30 11:23:02 2002 Subject: Devils Gate In-Reply-To: <146.f324a53.2a279f08@aol.com> Message-ID: <000201c207ed$bd059b20$3500000a@denver.swca.com> As of last week, Wyoming's lone Congress person did not support the exchange, so it is doubtful that it would pass without her support. But things change. Bill Martin SWCA Environmental consultants _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From shereel0dupont@netscape.net Thu May 30 13:53:02 2002 From: shereel0dupont@netscape.net (Shereel Dupont) Date: Thu May 30 12:53:02 2002 Subject: SHPOs and Towers Message-ID: <4974F705.48958842.0FBCAEAE@netscape.net> On the thread of earlier this week, some thoughts on a Tower Manifesto: 1) SHPOs should reject outright any Section 106 report submitted for a tower project that does not include a historic context for evaluating historic properties using the National Register Criteria for Evaluation. 2) SHPOs should reject outright any Section 106 report submitted for a tower project that attempts to evaluate historic properties under NRHP Criterion C only. These reports do not meet the documentation standards in the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and they do not contain adequate documentation required under 36 CFR Part 800. 3) SHPOs should reject outright any Section 106 report submitted for a tower project that does not make an attempt to re-evaluate previously inventoried and/or NRHP-listed properties. "Reject Outright" means return the document to the sender with a request to resume Section 106 consultation in accordance with the rules. 4) SHPOs and the Advisory Council should not allow the tower industry to dictate the rules of Section 106 consultation. __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From TFKing106@aol.com Thu May 30 14:10:02 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Thu May 30 13:10:02 2002 Subject: SHPOs and Towers Message-ID: <106.12bca4bf.2a27c4dd@aol.com> Sheree says: 1) SHPOs should reject outright any Section 106 report submitted for a tower project that does not include a historic context for evaluating historic properties using the National Register Criteria for Evaluation. Reminds me of the time I tried to help a client do a 106 review on demolition of a very derelict, very ordinary (according to my architectural historian) house to make way for a retirement complex, and was told by the SHPO that the 4-5 block APE we proposed to use was irrelevant and we needed to do a context study of the whole town. Context studies are nice research projects, but to propose them as mandatory prerequisites to every evaluation is just plain silly. Tom King From davidsr01@mindspring.com Thu May 30 15:14:01 2002 From: davidsr01@mindspring.com (David Rotenstein) Date: Thu May 30 14:14:01 2002 Subject: SHPOs and Towers In-Reply-To: <106.12bca4bf.2a27c4dd@aol.com> Message-ID: Tom, A survey of the whole town is kind of overkill here. But how do you apply the NR Criteria without some baseline context, keeping in mind that a historic context is not a history dissertation, but in many cases can only be a few paragraphs long to serve the immediate S. 106 need? _________________________________________ David S. Rotenstein, Ph.D., RPA Consulting Historian Silver Spring, MD 20910 Fax: (301) 588-9394 Mobile: (240) 461-7835 e-mail: davidsr01@mindspring.com Web: http://davidsr01.home.mindspring.com _________________________________________ From glyph@hotmail.com Thu May 30 15:37:02 2002 From: glyph@hotmail.com (b glyph) Date: Thu May 30 14:37:02 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS Message-ID: Many thanks to Bill Green for the update on this LDS land grab, and all the info he included in his post. For those on our list who are interested in easily getting in touch with their representatives, but don't have the necessary Net info, I offer the following web site: http://www.vote-smart.org/index.phtml At this site, you can find out who your Rep is, if you don't already know. Contact info is listed, along with info on the Reps voting record. ttfn, B. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com Thu May 30 15:46:02 2002 From: tomwheaton@newsouthassoc.com (Tom Wheaton) Date: Thu May 30 14:46:02 2002 Subject: ACRA Annual Conference Initial Announcement Message-ID: ACRA Lites: I would like to invite you to ACRA's Eighth Annual Conference (http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html) in the heart of the largest urban National Register Historic District during the best season of the year (Oct 24-27). Savannah has a unique appeal and truly encourages you to relax and enjoy its amazing historic district with a wide selection of restaurants and activities, and everything is within easy walking distance. This year we have online registration (http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html#anchor1539845) for the conference and for the hotel. Highlights of this year's conference include Thursday afternoon workshops by ACRA specialist companies on archaeological topics, Friday morning workshops by ACRA members on architectural topics, and on Friday afternoon, two in-depth tours of Savannah, one exploring historic landscapes and the other emphasizing a major urban historic rehabilitation project conducted by the Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD). Saturday's plenary session will include Mark McDonald an expert on the history of historic preservation in Savannah; Robin Williams, head of the Architectural History Department at SCAD, one of the few departments devoted to architectural history in the country; and Judy Bense, an expert on urban archaeology and the author of urban archaeology preservation ordinances at the local level. Included in the registration fee are lunches on Friday and Saturday, dinner on Friday, and a reception at the 18th c. Owens Thomas House on Saturday. Dinner at the historic Pink House Restaurant, where Sherman had his headquarters, is at an additional cost and seating is limited, so sign up soon. ACRA's annual conference is consistently ranked by our members as ACRA's most important benefit, and is open to everyone interested in cultural resource management whether in government service, academia, the private sector, member, or non-member. Of course, members do get a discount. -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html -- Tom Wheaton, RPA New South Associates, Inc. ACRA's 2002 Annual Conference is in Savannah, Oct 24-27. Be there! http://www.acra-crm.org/conference.html From TFKing106@aol.com Thu May 30 15:47:02 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Thu May 30 14:47:02 2002 Subject: SHPOs and Towers Message-ID: <171.e5da7b0.2a27db9b@aol.com> David -- if in fact a "historic context" can "in many cases can only be a few paragraphs long to serve the immediate S. 106 need," then it's not a problem, but I also doubt if it's a "historic context" as many people understand the term. Obviously you've got to evaluate the property in the context of its history (and archeology, sociology, architectural history, etc.), but I suspect that this is not what a lot of people mean by "historic context." Of course, you understand that from my own admittedly marginal point of view, I think the community's perception is the major context in which evaluation should take place. If the community values the place, it ought to be attended to; if the community doesn't, then maybe it still ought to be attended to if an architectural historian or archeologist thinks its neat, but the kind of attention needed is often more narrowly defined. TKing From TFKing106@aol.com Thu May 30 15:49:02 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Thu May 30 14:49:02 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS Message-ID: <13c.f192831.2a27dc08@aol.com> Maybe I've missed it, but is there some particular reason that the CRM community is so up in arms about this transaction? Tom King From SAGEB@aol.com Thu May 30 16:55:01 2002 From: SAGEB@aol.com (SAGEB@aol.com) Date: Thu May 30 15:55:01 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS Message-ID: --part1_b6.c40bee3.2a27eb71_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/30/2002 2:08:22 PM Mountain Daylight Time, TFKing106@aol.com writes: > Maybe I've missed it, but is there some particular reason that the CRM > community is so up in arms about this transaction? > > Tom King > Maybe because they aren't part of Utah's majority group?? Mike Polk Sagebrush Consultants, L.L.C. Ogden, Utah --part1_b6.c40bee3.2a27eb71_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/30/2002 2:08:22 PM Mountain Daylight Time, TFKing106@aol.com writes:


Maybe I've missed it, but is there some particular reason that the CRM
community is so up in arms about this transaction?

Tom King


Maybe because they aren't part of Utah's majority group??

Mike Polk
Sagebrush Consultants, L.L.C.
Ogden, Utah --part1_b6.c40bee3.2a27eb71_boundary-- From S Nash" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C207F4.CEFE9280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know all the details, but why does the gov't want to sell this = land to a church. Are we getting a really good price? Do we need to = get more land under development for taxes? Oh wait, its a church so = they don't pay taxes. So why does the republican from Utah want to sell = federal property to a church? Have the Catholics had a chance to make = an offer yet? =20 Sean R. Nash, RPA=20 Principal Archaeological and Cultural Sciences Group 4002 Jaffna Cove=20 Austin, Texas 78749 (512) 775-3561 Fax (512) 892-3303=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C207F4.CEFE9280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't know all the details, but why = does the=20 gov't want to sell this land to a church.  Are we getting = a=20 really good price?  Do we need to get more land under development = for=20 taxes?  Oh wait, its a church so they don't pay taxes.  So why = does=20 the republican from Utah want to sell federal property to a = church?  Have=20 the Catholics had a chance to make an offer yet?
 
Sean R. Nash, RPA =
Principal
Archaeological=20 and Cultural Sciences Group
4002 Jaffna Cove
Austin, Texas = 78749
(512)=20 775-3561
Fax (512) 892-3303
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C207F4.CEFE9280-- From sblack@mail.utexas.edu Thu May 30 18:00:01 2002 From: sblack@mail.utexas.edu (Steve Black) Date: Thu May 30 17:00:01 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS In-Reply-To: <13c.f192831.2a27dc08@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020530163414.02f36e90@mail.utexas.edu> --=====================_13047030==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:48 PM 5/30/2002 -0400, TFKing106@aol.com wrote: >Maybe I've missed it, but is there some particular reason that the CRM >community is so up in arms about this transaction? I'd guess that some are most worried about the precedent and see visions of Indian and other "minority" groups trying to buy sites they see as sacred using similar logic. I can't really see how the contractor side of CRM would care -- might even mean more work as long as the sales require the 106 process to be followed. I can see how the true land managers might be worried as this would be loss of turf/control/protection. For the land-holding agencies that actually do a good job of protecting their cultural resources, this might be a legitimate concern. But how about those that historically have done little to protect and wisely manage cultural resources? Why not give the Mormons, who have both vested interest and money, the chance to manage their own sacred site? Whoops, I think I've been brainwashed by reading too many of Tom King's Altamira Press books... must recall traditional mantra ... we are Archeologists, only we know best ... we are Archeologists, only we know best ... --=====================_13047030==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:48 PM 5/30/2002 -0400, TFKing106@aol.com wrote:
Maybe I've missed it, but is there some particular reason that the CRM
community is so up in arms about this transaction?

I'd guess that some are most worried about the precedent and see visions of Indian and other "minority" groups trying to buy sites they see as sacred using similar logic.  I can't really see how the contractor side of CRM would care -- might even mean more work as long as the sales require the 106 process to be followed. 

I can see how the true land managers might be worried as this would be loss of turf/control/protection.  For the land-holding agencies that actually do a good job of protecting their cultural resources, this might be a legitimate concern.  But how about those that historically have done little to protect and wisely manage cultural resources?   Why not give the Mormons, who have both vested interest and money, the chance to manage their own sacred site? 

Whoops, I think I've been brainwashed by reading too many of Tom King's Altamira Press books... must recall traditional mantra ... we are Archeologists, only we know best ... we are Archeologists, only we know best ...
--=====================_13047030==_.ALT-- From Dee_W_Lloyd@rl.gov Thu May 30 20:19:02 2002 From: Dee_W_Lloyd@rl.gov (Dee_W_Lloyd@rl.gov) Date: Thu May 30 19:19:02 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS Message-ID: Someone has had a great influence on the Latter Day Saints to preserve and protect heritage resources and if it was the ACRA-lytes I say Bravo to you all. I think the CRM community should be pleased with the Latter Day Saints who have a joint interest in preservation and restoration of so many of our nations heritage resources. These guys are a godsend for meeting many of the goals and objectives of CRM. Many times I have been involved with and seen federal lands transferred out of Federal ownership and I have worried about the ability and effectiveness of the receiver to preserve and protect the CR. I don't have a concern with the LDS. It appears they have managed Martins Cove quite well with full public access to historic sites over the years. I would like to hear more about the LDS efforts at the location. I would encourage you all to support this noble effort by the LDS. I spent a few minutes searching the WEB and found evidence pointing to tremendous efforts in historic preservation by the LDS. I support DOI/BLM in this wise decision to improve resource protection. The LDS are highly enthused and motivated about historic preservation. Actions speak loud. Check out this brief list. http://www.kbyu.org/ancestors/records/risk/extra3.html LDS's preservation efforts http://www.lds.org/media/newsrelease/extra/display/0,6025,665-1-167-5,00.htm l The Ellis Island Records Project is only the latest in a major series of family history projects undertaken by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints http://www.lds.org/media/newsrelease/extra/display/0,6025,665-1-136-9,00.htm l The Freedman's Bank records from 1864 to 1871 are now available to the public on compact disc. Produced by The Church of Jesus Christ of Cove Fort http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/location/0,10634,1795-1-1-1,00.html http://www.lds.org/media/article/0,5422,116-5013,FF.htmlThe Church was one of 16 organizations and individuals recognized for preservation work that has spurred economic development, increased heritage tourism, provided affordable housing, revitalized downtowns or supported stewardship of New York's architectural and cultural heritage. http://zionslight.com/nwmo/Welcome to the Northwest Missouri LDS Historic Sites Tour! http://www.ldsfaith.org/links.php#Church%20History Church History http://travel.lycos.com/roadtrips/rtrips_details.asp?itemid=1158Church has sponsored a massive historic preservation of old Nauvoo Free Museums and Interpretive Centers and Restoration project examples http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/location/0,10634,1787-1-1-1,00.html http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/location/0,10634,1790-1-1-1,00.html http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/region/0,10749,1776-1-1,00.html http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/region/0,10749,1780-1-1,00.html http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/region/0,10749,1775-1-1,00.html Museums, Exhibits and Places to Visit http://www.lds.org/media2/categorydisplay/0,7091,612-1-37,00.html Genealogy and Family History An index of all stories and news releases, including photos, video clips and sound bites in this topic http://www.lds.org/media2/categorydisplay/0,7091,612-1-35,00.html Back on Monday Dee W Lloyd -----Original Message----- From: TFKing106@aol.com [mailto:TFKing106@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:48 PM To: glyph@hotmail.com; acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net Subject: Re: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS Maybe I've missed it, but is there some particular reason that the CRM community is so up in arms about this transaction? Tom King _______________________________________________ acra-l mailing list acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From S Nash" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C20811.E5489280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have just been informed (off list) that the Devils Gate is associated = with the Mormons. Now this transaction makes sense to me, in fact, it = seems like the right thing to do. It does seem a little unfair that = less wealthy groups do not have the same ability to acquire their sacred = sites. =20 Sean R. Nash, RPA=20 Vice President=20 Archaeological and Cultural Sciences Group 4002 Jaffna Cove=20 Austin, Texas 78749 (512) 775-3561 Fax (512) 892-3303=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C20811.E5489280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have just been informed (off = list) that=20 the Devils Gate is associated with the=20 Mormons.  Now this transaction makes sense to me, in = fact, it=20 seems like the right thing to do.  It does seem a little = unfair=20 that less wealthy groups do not have the same ability to acquire = their=20 sacred sites.   
 
Sean R. Nash, RPA
Vice President=20
Archaeological and Cultural Sciences Group
4002 Jaffna Cove =
Austin,=20 Texas 78749
(512) 775-3561
Fax (512) 892-3303 =
------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C20811.E5489280-- From Robertson.James@acd.net Thu May 30 21:53:02 2002 From: Robertson.James@acd.net (James Robertson) Date: Thu May 30 20:53:02 2002 Subject: SHPOs and Towers References: <106.12bca4bf.2a27c4dd@aol.com> Message-ID: <002801c20846$2aa6c2a0$0b55b3cf@0017145729> Similar to Tom King's experience, a SHPO requested us (consultant and agency) to do an entire county as context for a project! Rather than an "archaeology problem" as some like to spout, most projects I run have an above-ground problem from the get-go. jar ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: Re: SHPOs and Towers > Sheree says: > > 1) SHPOs should reject outright any Section 106 report submitted for a tower > project that does not include a historic context for evaluating historic > properties using the National Register Criteria for Evaluation. > > Reminds me of the time I tried to help a client do a 106 review on demolition > of a very derelict, very ordinary (according to my architectural historian) > house to make way for a retirement complex, and was told by the SHPO that the > 4-5 block APE we proposed to use was irrelevant and we needed to do a context > study of the whole town. Context studies are nice research projects, but to > propose them as mandatory prerequisites to every evaluation is just plain > silly. > > Tom King > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l From maxwell445@charter.net Fri May 31 00:13:02 2002 From: maxwell445@charter.net (Ginny Bengston) Date: Thu May 30 23:13:02 2002 Subject: Devils Gate References: <005401c2083b$cf1a5fa0$191a3a41@Nash> Message-ID: <003201c20859$837268e0$9d00a8c0@c1591211a> Steve Nash wrote: I have just been informed (off list) that the Devils Gate is associated with the Mormons. Now this transaction makes sense to me, in fact, it seems like the right thing to do. It does seem a little unfair that less wealthy groups do not have the same ability to acquire their sacred sites. I have not read every one of the messages of this thread so if I touch on a topic that has already been addressed, I apology in advance. So...what about places like Devil's Tower or Spirit Mountain or all of the federal lands in Nevada that are claimed as being culturally significant to the Western Shoshone? What if the LDS Church asks to buy Mountain Meadows? Although I admit that it might be entertaining to see how they "preserve" that one. From jlmurphy@columbus.rr.com Fri May 31 00:57:02 2002 From: jlmurphy@columbus.rr.com (Jim Murphy) Date: Thu May 30 23:57:02 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS References: Message-ID: <000101c20868$16d0d140$5d711841@columbus.rr.com> Without intending to belittle any historic preservation efforts of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I think it is a bit much to couch this work in terms of being "a noble effort." The Church has very definite motives in its "efforts" and is far from being an objective or disinterested force in historic preservation. This is quite clear from the statement appearing on some of their historic site web sites: "Whether you're taking a break on a business trip or vacationing with family and friends, there are many opportunities to learn about the rich history AND TEACHINGS of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." [caps added]. I personally have no problem with this form of subtle proselytization-- I much prefer it to having Church members showing up on my front porch-- but let's recognize the "noble effort" for what it is. And the Church's motivation in genealogical research and record preservation is quite clear. Godsend, indeed! I seriously doubt that ACRL-L has had much to do with instilling this interest in historic preservation within the Church, which existed long before ACRA. Many religious groups have histories inevitably intertwined with that of our country but there can be a fine line between preserving history and promoting religion. While the LDS church bids fair to erase that line and to become the Disney of American religions, I think that the federal government should be very careful about giving "deals" to any religious group under the guise of "preservation." ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 7:16 PM Subject: RE: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS > Someone has had a great influence on the Latter Day Saints to preserve and > protect heritage resources and if it was the ACRA-lytes I say Bravo to you > all. > I think the CRM community should be pleased with the Latter Day Saints who > have a joint interest in preservation and restoration of so many of our > nations heritage resources. These guys are a godsend for meeting many of the > goals and objectives of CRM. Many times I have been involved with and seen > federal lands transferred out of Federal ownership and I have worried about > the ability and effectiveness of the receiver to preserve and protect the > CR. I don't have a concern with the LDS. It appears they have managed > Martins Cove quite well with full public access to historic sites over the > years. I would like to hear more about the LDS efforts at the location. > I would encourage you all to support this noble effort by the LDS. I spent a > few minutes searching the WEB and found evidence pointing to tremendous > efforts in historic preservation by the LDS. I support DOI/BLM in this wise > decision to improve resource protection. > > The LDS are highly enthused and motivated about historic preservation. > Actions speak loud. Check out this brief list. > > http://www.kbyu.org/ancestors/records/risk/extra3.html LDS's preservation > efforts > > http://www.lds.org/media/newsrelease/extra/display/0,6025,665-1-167-5,00.htm > l The Ellis Island Records Project is only the latest in a major series of > family history projects undertaken by The Church of Jesus Christ of > Latter-day Saints > http://www.lds.org/media/newsrelease/extra/display/0,6025,665-1-136-9,00.htm > l The Freedman's Bank records from 1864 to 1871 are now available to the > public on compact disc. Produced by The Church of Jesus Christ of > > Cove Fort > http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/location/0,10634,1795-1-1-1,00.html > http://www.lds.org/media/article/0,5422,116-5013,FF.htmlThe Church was one > of 16 organizations and individuals recognized for preservation work that > has spurred economic development, increased heritage tourism, provided > affordable housing, revitalized downtowns or supported stewardship of New > York's architectural and cultural heritage. > http://zionslight.com/nwmo/Welcome to the Northwest Missouri LDS Historic > Sites Tour! > http://www.ldsfaith.org/links.php#Church%20History Church History > http://travel.lycos.com/roadtrips/rtrips_details.asp?itemid=1158Church has > sponsored a massive historic preservation of old Nauvoo > > Free Museums and Interpretive Centers and Restoration project examples > http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/location/0,10634,1787-1-1-1,00.html > http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/location/0,10634,1790-1-1-1,00.html > http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/region/0,10749,1776-1-1,00.html > http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/region/0,10749,1780-1-1,00.html > http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/region/0,10749,1775-1-1,00.html > > Museums, Exhibits and Places to Visit > http://www.lds.org/media2/categorydisplay/0,7091,612-1-37,00.html > > Genealogy and Family History > An index of all stories and news releases, including photos, video clips and > sound bites in this topic > http://www.lds.org/media2/categorydisplay/0,7091,612-1-35,00.html > > > Back on Monday > Dee W Lloyd > > -----Original Message----- > From: TFKing106@aol.com [mailto:TFKing106@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:48 PM > To: glyph@hotmail.com; acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > Subject: Re: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS > > > Maybe I've missed it, but is there some particular reason that the CRM > community is so up in arms about this transaction? > > Tom King > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l > _______________________________________________ > acra-l mailing list > acra-l@lists.nonprofit.net > http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l > From bmartin@swca.com Fri May 31 08:55:01 2002 From: bmartin@swca.com (Bill Martin) Date: Fri May 31 07:55:01 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate Message-ID: <001001c20899$dff9be20$3500000a@denver.swca.com> NPR had a story on it last week, if anyone wants to go there website and download for all the details. Bill Martin SWCA Inc., Environmental Consultants bmartin@swca.com 303.487.1183 From rsalisb@yahoo.com Fri May 31 15:09:02 2002 From: rsalisb@yahoo.com (Roderick Salisbury) Date: Fri May 31 14:09:02 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020530163414.02f36e90@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <20020531190828.49094.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> --- Steve Black wrote: > Whoops, I think I've been brainwashed by reading too many > of Tom King's > Altamira Press books... must recall traditional mantra > ... we are > Archeologists, only we know best ... we are > Archeologists, only we know > best ... > In my mind, this is a huge problem in archaeology. Does your doctor know best about your ulcer? Does you lawyer know best about your lawsuit? Does your electrician know best about your fuse-box? Does your archaeologist know best about your cultural property? If we as archaeologists don't think that we are the best trained to determine eligibility or what is worth preserving, then we can't expect anyone else to consider what we do important or necessary. This isn't to say that what Tom writes isn't true or worth considering. Other parties should be consulted, as most of the aforementioned professionals consult frequently. But if we are professional archaeologists, then we are the expert. To be treated as such we must act as such. Organizations (ACRA in this case) exist in one aspect to remind us of our ethics....after all, there are "bad" doctors and dishonest electricians. Still they are experts in the end, with qualifications, and knowing more than we do about certain things. ===== Roderick Salisbury Archaeological Survey Dept of Anthropology State University of New York at Buffalo FAX 716/645-6371 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From JTrnka@hrgreen.com Fri May 31 15:37:02 2002 From: JTrnka@hrgreen.com (Trnka, Joe) Date: Fri May 31 14:37:02 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS Message-ID: <40A2FDA7269FD411A6B300805F196BE3C95632@crntexch.hrgreen.com> Roderick writes, "But if we are professional archaeologists, then we are the expert. To be treated as such we must act as such." I can agree with this statement if the discussion is confined to archaeology. To assume, however, that cultural properties are only archaeological in nature is a dangerously narrow view. To refine the analogy, would you go to a podiatrist if you had an infection in your inner ear? Would you seek the advice of a carpal tunnel expert if your uncle was suffering from delusions that he was Napoleon? Maybe if no other medical specialist were available, but you might then be sacrificing quality for expediency. Or, would you seek the advice of an archaeologist if the historic property was a building? How about if it was a piece of technical and highly scientific equipment, such as a 20,000-ton, 200-foot tall rocket engine test stand built into the side of a cliff? Just my 2 cents Joe ======================== Joseph Trnka Project Manager/Environmental Scientist Howard R. Green Company 8710 Earhart Lane SW, PO Box 9009 Cedar Rapids, IA 52409-9009 Phone: (319) 841-4380, (800) 728-7805 Fax: (319) 841-4012 Email: jtrnka@hrgreen.com Web Site: www.hrgreen.com "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." -- President Theodore Roosevelt From TFKing106@aol.com Fri May 31 15:46:02 2002 From: TFKing106@aol.com (TFKing106@aol.com) Date: Fri May 31 14:46:02 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS Message-ID: <15d.eae97e3.2a292cd6@aol.com> Re.: "Does your archaeologist know best about your cultural property?" Of course not. She or he doubtless knows best about the archeological aspects of that piece of ground that she or he defines as an archeological site. Beyond that, there's no reason to think that she or he knows best, and quite a few reasons for thinking quite the opposite. What is it about the fact that archeology does not equal culture that you don't understand? Tom King From sblack@mail.utexas.edu Fri May 31 16:09:01 2002 From: sblack@mail.utexas.edu (Steve Black) Date: Fri May 31 15:09:01 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS In-Reply-To: <20020531190828.49094.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020530163414.02f36e90@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020531144244.02ee41d8@mail.utexas.edu> --=====================_92791657==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:08 PM 5/31/2002 -0700, Roderick Salisbury wrote: > > we are Archeologists, only we know best ... > >In my mind, this is a huge problem in archaeology. Does >your doctor know best about your ulcer? Does you lawyer >know best about your lawsuit? Does your electrician know >best about your fuse-box? Does your archaeologist know best >about your cultural property? Calm thy self, Roderick, I wasn't commenting on who knows best about archeology. The case in point is not just or even mainly about archeology. It is about the cultural resources/properties on the Devil's Gate property and how best to manage them. King's oft-made point, which finally, after teaching a CRM course for the 3rd or 4th time, has fully penetrated my well-protected gray matter, is that archeology does not equal CRM. It is only one aspect of it. Archeology is a discipline whose subject matter is of equal and sometimes greater interest to many other constituent groups. Say it ain't so all you want, but accepting reality seems like a better strategy than chest thumping (says an expert in the practice). Repeat after me the new PC mantra we are archeologists, we don't own the past ... we are archeologists, we don't own the past ... Or if you have the time, the expanded and overly qualified version: we are professional archeologists and fully qualified CRM practitioners, and while we don't own the past, we have expert opinions about it ... we are professional archeologists ... Steve Black. Ph.D., RPA, and would-be ACRA (but too cheap) Texas Archeological Research Laboratory Editor, www.texasbeyondhistory.net --=====================_92791657==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 12:08 PM 5/31/2002 -0700, Roderick Salisbury wrote:
>  we are Archeologists, only we know best ...

In my mind, this is a huge problem in archaeology. Does
your doctor know best about your ulcer? Does you lawyer
know best about your lawsuit? Does your electrician know
best about your fuse-box? Does your archaeologist know best
about your cultural property?

Calm thy self, Roderick, I wasn't commenting on who knows best about archeology.   The case in point is not just or even mainly about archeology.  It is about the cultural resources/properties on the Devil's Gate property and how best to manage them.  King's oft-made point, which finally, after teaching a CRM course for the 3rd or 4th time, has fully penetrated my well-protected gray matter, is that archeology does not equal CRM.  It is only one aspect of it.  Archeology is a discipline whose subject matter is of equal and sometimes greater interest to many other constituent groups.  Say it ain't so all you want, but accepting reality seems like a better strategy than chest thumping (says an expert in the practice). 

Repeat after me the new PC mantra

we are archeologists, we don't own the past ... we are archeologists, we don't own the past ...

Or if you have the time, the expanded and overly qualified version:

we are professional archeologists and fully qualified CRM practitioners, and while we don't own the past, we have expert opinions about it ... we are professional archeologists ...

Steve Black. Ph.D., RPA,  and would-be ACRA (but too cheap)
Texas Archeological Research Laboratory
Editor, www.texasbeyondhistory.net

--=====================_92791657==_.ALT-- From jde3@ra.msstate.edu Fri May 31 17:15:01 2002 From: jde3@ra.msstate.edu (Jack D. Elliott, Jr.) Date: Fri May 31 16:15:01 2002 Subject: Archaeologists know best? Message-ID: <3CF7E833.8CA14D2C@ra.msstate.edu> An archaeologist is trained to interpret the past upon the basis of artifactual remains (and sometimes other traces of the past). This will be of value in determining "significance" under NR Criterion D; however, the criteria are defined on the basis of "objective" characteristics and associations and say nothing about the overall value and meaning of these to society. This latter is the true realm of significance, and it doesn't fall under the usual training within most disciplines. Jack From satnik@elltel.net Fri May 31 17:47:02 2002 From: satnik@elltel.net (Roger & Kathleen Satnik) Date: Fri May 31 16:47:02 2002 Subject: Devil's Gate BLM land to LDS References: <20020531190828.49094.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004701c208ec$960354e0$0200a8c0@krd> Roderick Salisbury says: "In my mind, this is a huge problem in archaeology. Does your doctor know best about your ulcer? Does you lawyer know best about your lawsuit? Does your electrician know best about your fuse-box? Does your archaeologist know best about your cultural property? If we as archaeologists don't think that we are the best trained to determine eligibility or what is worth preserving, then we can't expect anyone else to consider what we do important or necessary." Two points to be considered are 1) the ethos ascribed to being an archaeologist and 2) what constitutes a knowledgeable professional. 1) When I'm asked if I'm a feminist, I first ask what ethos the "asker" ascribes to feminism. Increasingly, I feel I must ask that same question when asked if I'm an archaeologist. Am I concerned with preservation of archaeological sites? Yes. Do I know how to research and document them? Yes. Do I think that any of this is as important as understanding the cultural context, or leaving the site alone completely if the associated people request it? No. So, am I an archaeologist? You tell me. I'll stick to my typical response that I'm an anthropologist who does archaeology and historic preservation. 2) Does my electrician know best about my fuse-box? If my house is built to code, I would hope so. If my house wasn't built to code, I'd then assume the homebuilder knows best. So, if an archaeology site is "built to code" I guess the archaeologist knows best. If the site isn't, the archaeologist better go find the real experts.... By the way, has anyone ever seen a site built to code? Can't say that I have.... Kathleen Satnik